[BBC News] Schoolgirl hit by van on crossing

[spanna]

Why are there so many posts about speeding in this thread? when speed had nothing to do with it.

The girl walked out from the back of the bus directly infront of the van and she got clipped.

He wasnt speeding. Even if he was doing 5 mph she would have been hit it was that close.

[Rich]

I firmly believe that it's not speed, but bad driving that kills.

 

Is that what the motorbike crash was attributed too in that little vid of yours?

 

Speed is always a factor no mater how fast, if you weren't travelling at speed there would be no collision see?

[sarahc]

And there's as much bad driving at 20-30mph as there is at 80-100mph - the difference is that at least the faster driver is focused on the task and not daydreaming and wondering why there are a dozen people queuing impatiently behind him/her when the road ahead is perfectly clear.

 

No, the difference is the impact a mistake at 20-30mph has compared with at 80-100mph.

 

There is absolutely no case whatsoever for blaming slow drivers for causing accidents. None. It's not them that cause it, it's inconsiderate arseholes like you who dont have the patience to delay your journey by a few minutes. If you find yourself being impatient on the road because someone is driving slower than you would, then you have self control issues and you dont deserve to be on the road. Get off.

 

Hear Hear ans.

[Stu Peters]

Rich - that was simply bad riding on my part - and I'm honest enough to admit it.

 

I must try to be more like ans - no anger or impatience issues and all the time in the world. Bet he works on a 286 with dial-up...

[Albert Tatlock]

The speed limit for learners is 50 mph so driving at 60mph would guarrantte a fail.

That is not always the case, learners can already have a full drivers licence - it depends on what you're learning to drive.

 

However, I agree a 50mph limit for a while for new drivers is probably a good idea, though I think they should be taught how to drive faster on the mountain, or better still taken on a skid-pan to see what it is like to lose control at 50-70mph. I wish they'd make more use of simulators too...in this day and age pretty realistic simulations can be built which would show people just how easy it is to get into an accident, hit other vehicles, kids etc. I also think once you've hit 6 points on your licence it might be a good idea to have to go on a mandatory course, or even take a retest (with a copper - that'll discourage yer!).

[Silentbob]

And there's as much bad driving at 20-30mph as there is at 80-100mph - the difference is that at least the faster driver is focused on the task and not daydreaming and wondering why there are a dozen people queuing impatiently behind him/her when the road ahead is perfectly clear.

 

No, the difference is the impact a mistake at 20-30mph has compared with at 80-100mph.

 

There is absolutely no case whatsoever for blaming slow drivers for causing accidents. None. It's not them that cause it, it's inconsiderate arseholes like you who dont have the patience to delay your journey by a few minutes. If you find yourself being impatient on the road because someone is driving slower than you would, then you have self control issues and you dont deserve to be on the road. Get off.

 

Sorry Ans, but that is utter utter rubbish. OVERLY slow drivers ARE a cause of accidents. When you come across a driver driving at 25mph in a 50mph limit with 15 cars stuck behind them, it IS the LEAD CAR THAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM, that ONE car is affecting the passage of NUMEROUS other road users, and if THEY are so IGNORANT and SELF IMPORTANT that THEY think THEY have the RIGHT to hold up other road users, then it is THEM that should GET OFF THE ROAD. Yes, it could be stated that us other 15 drivers are the impatient ones, but since when did that one person dictate that we ALL have to drive around at such a low speed?

 

The byproduct of these road users, is that the less patient, or roadcraft orientated motorists might try to overtake and cause an accident. These slow drivers are the ones who frequently say "I have never been in an accident, but I have seen loads in my rear view mirror".

 

And to finish I will quote a senior police driver from the UK...

 

"They must be aware of the tail of vehicles behind them and by ignoring that, they're actually driving without due care and attention.

 

"The premise is simple, reduce the need to overtake, and it follows there would be less overtaking accidents. It's as simple as that."

 

Keith Peat, Association of British Drivers

[ans]

The byproduct of these road users, is that the less patient, or roadcraft orientated motorists might try to overtake and cause an accident.

 

I don't know whether you intended this, but you're absolutely right. They cause it themselves.

 

And if they're causing accidents, they obviously need to brush up on this roadcraft then eh? Whatever the fuck that is.

 

Oh, and if you're going to start lifting quotes, let's have the rest of the article eh?

 

However, Mr Burgess, former head of the Lincolnshire Police Crash Investigation Unit, said: "Whilst I support the theory that drivers should drive to the speed limit, when conditions and traffic allow, there is absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, to suggest that slow drivers are the cause of fatals.

"I'm not aware of any pedestrian, cyclist or car driver dying as a result of a motorist driving too slowly.

 

"But we are fully aware of the deaths caused by motorists driving at excessive speeds."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/5110366.stm

 

No patience? No self control? No fucking licence.

[Pragmatopian]

Having said their is some really shite driving on the Isle of Man (which there undoubtedly is), the Czechs are true contenders when it comes to dangerous overtaking manouvres. Even when I'm driving at a fair pace on winding country roads they're still up to my bumper and then flying past me when they haven't a clue what's round the next bend. On several occasions I've been forced to slow right down and pull into the ditch to allow them to avoid colliding with oncoming traffic and killing me as part of the bargain.

 

Perhaps we should introduce a new deathsport, where impatient arseholes are allowed to drive around overtaking each other. The last one without their tiny brain spattered over their dashboard is declared winner and given the privilege of racing again next time.

[keyboarder]

When you come across a driver driving at 25mph in a 50mph limit with 15 cars stuck behind them, it IS the LEAD CAR THAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM,

 

What problem?

 

 

that ONE car is affecting the passage of NUMEROUS other road users, and if THEY are so IGNORANT and SELF IMPORTANT that THEY think THEY have the RIGHT to hold up other road users, then it is THEM that should GET OFF THE ROAD.

 

You might wish that it was otherwise, but in the absence of a minimum speed limit they have every right.

 

Yes, it could be stated that us other 15 drivers are the impatient ones, but since when did that one person dictate that we ALL have to drive around at such a low speed?

 

lol,lol....... see previous response.

[Silentbob]

When you come across a driver driving at 25mph in a 50mph limit with 15 cars stuck behind them, it IS the LEAD CAR THAT IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM,

 

What problem?

 

 

that ONE car is affecting the passage of NUMEROUS other road users, and if THEY are so IGNORANT and SELF IMPORTANT that THEY think THEY have the RIGHT to hold up other road users, then it is THEM that should GET OFF THE ROAD.

 

You might wish that it was otherwise, but in the absence of a minimum speed limit they have every right.

 

Yes, it could be stated that us other 15 drivers are the impatient ones, but since when did that one person dictate that we ALL have to drive around at such a low speed?

 

lol,lol....... see previous response.

 

That is JUST it keyboarder, and you have hit the nail on the HEAD, over here - especially - there are ppl on the roads that hold up other roads users because it is their 'right' to do so, nothing more, nothing less; it is like the knobs who drive the wrong way round the mountain during TT "Well, I dont care if I get cut in half by an oncoming motorcycle, I will go to my grave knowing I was in the right, I pay my road tax"....fuckwits.

[Silentbob]

The byproduct of these road users, is that the less patient, or roadcraft orientated motorists might try to overtake and cause an accident.

 

I don't know whether you intended this, but you're absolutely right. They cause it themselves.

 

And if they're causing accidents, they obviously need to brush up on this roadcraft then eh? Whatever the fuck that is.

 

Oh, and if you're going to start lifting quotes, let's have the rest of the article eh?

 

However, Mr Burgess, former head of the Lincolnshire Police Crash Investigation Unit, said: "Whilst I support the theory that drivers should drive to the speed limit, when conditions and traffic allow, there is absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, to suggest that slow drivers are the cause of fatals.

"I'm not aware of any pedestrian, cyclist or car driver dying as a result of a motorist driving too slowly.

 

"But we are fully aware of the deaths caused by motorists driving at excessive speeds."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/5110366.stm

 

No patience? No self control? No fucking licence.

 

Ans, I am not saying that the person who pulls out and makes the overtaking manouvre...hence the accident is not the person directly responsible for the accident, ofc he/she is. What I am saying is that if the person in front of him WAS driving at a very low speed, AND did not pull over to the left or pull over entirely to allow faster traffic to pass where it was safe, then they MUST be added to the factors in that incident.

 

Whilst I was searching the web, in NZ it is in their highway code to do just that, pull over and let traffic past.

 

Ny car is very slow, it maxxes out at about 70mph downhill with the wind behind it, an uphill gradient and I am down to 30-40 mph....maybe less. I am always fully aware of what is behind me or approaching, and I am always wary of my current speed, and my roadcraft (knowing the road you are on, possible blind exits, dangers, speed limits, road surface conditions, you know sort of like a craft where your years of experience build you up a skillset on how do deal with things) and keep in mind that as soon as I can get that vehicle past me safely, both of us can carry on our journey in the safest manner. One might call it good driving, others might call it common fecking courtesy.

[macks]

The speed limit for learners is 50 mph so driving at 60mph would guarrantte a fail.

That is not always the case, learners can already have a full drivers licence - it depends on what you're learning to drive.

 

However, I agree a 50mph limit for a while for new drivers is probably a good idea, though I think they should be taught how to drive faster on the mountain, or better still taken on a skid-pan to see what it is like to lose control at 50-70mph. I wish they'd make more use of simulators too...in this day and age pretty realistic simulations can be built which would show people just how easy it is to get into an accident, hit other vehicles, kids etc. I also think once you've hit 6 points on your licence it might be a good idea to have to go on a mandatory course, or even take a retest (with a copper - that'll discourage yer!).

Afraid your wrong! any vehicle fitted with L plates is restricted to 50mph so that is the limit wether your allready quallified to drive another vehicle or not.

I looked into the cost of bringing one of the skid steer cradles used to teach skid control,while researching this i came a cross a report which suggested that a lot of police forces frown upon there use.They seem to think that there use mearly encourages people to use the skills they learn to deliberately put there cars into over steer and understeer situations.Its also worth noting that a lot of these machines and skid pans in general advertise stag party sessions and such so are they always being used to promote safe driving or encouraging people to imitate their favourite rally star hero.