oldmanxfella Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 You don't understand the issue, yet you're happy to dive in with your agree becuase you see words like fingerprints and biometrics associated with children, and want to pipe up and be outraged like you think you should be. I understand the issue ok - don't insult my intelligence you pompous prick. All I said is that it was good to question it, and that the BOE itself had now been alerted to something it didn't realise was happening so frequently which in my mind is a good thing as it can now be debated properly. You sound like some sad IT w@nker happy to claim other people are wearing "tinfoil hats" when its you who is not thinking the implications through fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 You sound like some sad IT w@nker happy to claim other people are wearing "tinfoil hats" when its you who is not thinking the implications through fully. You're friendly, aren't you! Lets hear these implications then, what are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 You sound like some sad IT w@nker happy to claim other people are wearing "tinfoil hats" when its you who is not thinking the implications through fully. You're friendly, aren't you! Lets hear these implications then, what are they? The key is in the words debated properly if you don't debate a subject fully how do you know what the possible implications might be? In this instance other schools have just said "lets do it" which is a rather arrogant assumption in my mind that they know what is best and that they can be 100% trusted with what they are doing. There may be no implications, but if the pros and cons are not properly debated you can't just go ahead and do stuff that some parents are clearly not happy with. The BOE is made up of elected officials. It is for those democratically elected and accountable to the general public to make the policy in relation to data handling etc. Its not for tinpot heads, or school IT managers to go off and decide what they implement without being accountable to anyone else for those decisions or the implications of those decisions. (Edited) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 There may be no implications, but if the pros and cons are not properly debated you can't just go ahead and do stuff that some parents are clearly not happy with. The BOE is made up of elected officials. It is for those democratically elected and accountable to the general public to make the policy in relation to data handling etc. Its not for tinpot heads, or school IT managers to go off and decide what they implement without being accountable to anyone else for those decisions or the implications of those decisions. At the risk of making this even more cyclical, we already entrust the schools with our childrens welfare. Should we debate everything they do? Nothing would get done, and it'd cost a fortune. Do you debate what books they read, what's on the corriculum, what sporting activities they do, what policies they have on behavour, what records they keep about your child? No. This is ignorance, pure and simple. People who don't understand it, who are reacting to mis-informed scaremongering like the idiots above who bizzarely connect a thumbprint scanner with national ID cards after reading PRIZONPLANETEARTH-THETROOOOTH.COM and start wipping up an angry mob to waste everyones time. You call me pompous when you expect a debate for everything you don't understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 AI Droid, as you are obviously such an expert on the subject can you advise why you feel it is necessary to use a thumbprint? Library cards have been ok for many years. Why do you trust the UK government to do what is right, when other countries even the USA have voted aginst the ID card issue? Why are you so happy that the software and the users are uncorruptable, as far as I am aware it is easy to reconstitute deleted files? I haven't seen anything from you that backs up your opinion? Can you provide some? Have you read any of the ID Act 2006? On what basis have you made up your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 as you are obviously such an expert on the subject can you advise why you feel it is necessary to use a thumbprint? Library cards have been ok for many years. It's not necessary, it's easier. Kids, generally, don't tend to lose fingers very often. Certainly not as often as library cards. It's simple practicality and using technology to ease the administrative overhead. I feel really sorry for you that you manage to extrapolate that into something far more sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 as you are obviously such an expert on the subject can you advise why you feel it is necessary to use a thumbprint? Library cards have been ok for many years. I did, about four posts ago. It isn't necessary, it's just a neat solution that fits well with schools and kids. Why do you trust the UK government to do what is right, when other countries even the USA have voted aginst the ID card issue? Why are you so happy that the software and the users are uncorruptable, as far as I am aware it is easy to reconstitute deleted files? You keep asking me about the ID cards. I've not mentioned ID cards, I'm not debating ID cards, it is my opinion that a thumbprint scanner in a school has fuck all to do with ID cards. I don't see the link, and I don't buy into the scaremongering crap that you and others are putting forward through ignorance. Is that clear? I haven't seen anything from you that backs up your opinion? Can you provide some? Have you read any of the ID Act 2006? On what basis have you made up your mind? Sure, I have a list. A list where children have been harmed by using thumbprint scanners, here it is, in full: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Just as an aside if anyone ever thinks Government data is secure then have a read of today's story in the Daily Telegraph: Customs lose data on 15m children's claims Presumably, if the names and addresses of all these children fall into criminal hands then the data will not be recoverable. All I can say is that I a damned glad my kids data was not on this database! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 as you are obviously such an expert on the subject can you advise why you feel it is necessary to use a thumbprint? Library cards have been ok for many years. I did, about four posts ago. It isn't necessary, it's just a neat solution that fits well with schools and kids. Why do you trust the UK government to do what is right, when other countries even the USA have voted aginst the ID card issue? Why are you so happy that the software and the users are uncorruptable, as far as I am aware it is easy to reconstitute deleted files? You keep asking me about the ID cards. I've not mentioned ID cards, I'm not debating ID cards, it is my opinion that a thumbprint scanner in a school has fuck all to do with ID cards. I don't see the link, and I don't buy into the scaremongering crap that you and others are putting forward through ignorance. Is that clear? I haven't seen anything from you that backs up your opinion? Can you provide some? Have you read any of the ID Act 2006? On what basis have you made up your mind? Sure, I have a list. A list where children have been harmed by using thumbprint scanners, here it is, in full: You haven't answered the questions! I have tried to answer all yours fully........without resorting to your level of language! You seem to have an opinion which you are quite right to express, but, as you have accused everyone who has disagreed with you for not researching the subject, how can you accuse others, if you have not done so yourself?! It is dissapointing that you cannot see the link between thumbprint scanning and the national database linked to ID cards. Maybe if you looked into the issue and looked at some of the links you would be able to see them? "It isn't necessary, it's just a neat solution that fits well with schools and kids." Thank you for agreeing that it isn't necessary! It is a solution that fits in with the school, the children wouldn't be able to make that decision, which is why it needs parental consent. "A list where children have been harmed by using thumbprint scanners", how many children have been harmed by library cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Just as an aside if anyone ever thinks Government data is secure then have a read of today's story in the Daily Telegraph: Customs lose data on 15m children's claims Presumably, if the names and addresses of all these children fall into criminal hands then the data will not be recoverable. All I can say is that I a damned glad my kids data was not on this database! I don't think there was any kids details on this database. The details related to child benefit recipients who I imagine are adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Just as an aside if anyone ever thinks Government data is secure then have a read of today's story in the Daily Telegraph: Customs lose data on 15m children's claims Presumably, if the names and addresses of all these children fall into criminal hands then the data will not be recoverable. All I can say is that I a damned glad my kids data was not on this database! OOPs, government making a mistake...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 You haven't answered the questions! I have tried to answer all yours fully........without resorting to your level of language!You seem to have an opinion which you are quite right to express, but, as you have accused everyone who has disagreed with you for not researching the subject, how can you accuse others, if you have not done so yourself?! Er, I have. I've answered them in the thread, you're asking stuff we've already covered. Read up yourself! It is dissapointing that you cannot see the link between thumbprint scanning and the national database linked to ID cards. Maybe if you looked into the issue and looked at some of the links you would be able to see them? I have, there isn't any. Show me. "It isn't necessary, it's just a neat solution that fits well with schools and kids." Thank you for agreeing that it isn't necessary! It is a solution that fits in with the school, the children wouldn't be able to make that decision, which is why it needs parental consent. Lots of things aren't necessary, but will improve things. I'm all for improving things, not winging about them and making a fuss over nothing and scaring people for no reason with misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelslikeitshould Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 how many children have been harmed by library cards? There is clearly way more scope for injury! They have sharp corners, if a 5 year old perfects that card throwing trick I once saw in a film then they may have someones ears off. Plus, paper cuts. How evil and painful are they please. thumb print scanners ftw! I'm actually surprised H&S haven't banned library cards.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 how many children have been harmed by library cards? There is clearly way more scope for injury! They have sharp corners, if a 5 year old perfects that card throwing trick I once saw in a film then they may have someones ears off. Plus, paper cuts. How evil and painful are they please. thumb print scanners ftw! I'm actually surprised H&S haven't banned library cards.... LOL, whilst we are at it ban swimming, football (they tried that at Clothworkers!) running, oh sod it ban eating, drinking, you could choke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Just as an aside if anyone ever thinks Government data is secure then have a read of today's story in the Daily Telegraph: Customs lose data on 15m children's claims Presumably, if the names and addresses of all these children fall into criminal hands then the data will not be recoverable. All I can say is that I a damned glad my kids data was not on this database! I don't think there was any kids details on this database. The details related to child benefit recipients who I imagine are adults. Does that make it ok?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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