ai_Droid Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 LOL, whilst we are at it ban swimming, football (they tried that at Clothworkers!) running, oh sod it ban eating, drinking, you could choke! Quite rich given your calls to ban harmless fingerprint scanners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The information includes: Childs name, age, date of birth and sex. Also . . . Parents home address, bank account, account name and sort code. Also . . . National insurance numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelslikeitshould Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The information includes: Childs name, age, date of birth and sex. Also . . . Parents home address, bank account, account name and sort code. Also . . . National insurance numbers. Sweet, I wonder how much money you could make off kidnapping and ransom demands? On a serious note, although they've 'lost' this data and is shocking that it could've happened, it's probably lost in the same way I lost the tv remote last week. It's unlikely they've dropped it while out in the pub or whatever, it'll be in those offices somewhere and if they can't trust their own employees to hand it in when they've found it, they shouldn't have employed them to handle that kind of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 One day, when we visit the bank or library or wherever, they'll obtain our account info by making us wank into a DNA machine on the counter. I can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The information includes: Childs name, age, date of birth and sex. Also . . . Parents home address, bank account, account name and sort code. Also . . . National insurance numbers. Sweet, I wonder how much money you could make off kidnapping and ransom demands? On a serious note, although they've 'lost' this data and is shocking that it could've happened, it's probably lost in the same way I lost the tv remote last week. It's unlikely they've dropped it while out in the pub or whatever, it'll be in those offices somewhere and if they can't trust their own employees to hand it in when they've found it, they shouldn't have employed them to handle that kind of information. it could have been worse. They could have lost a briefcase full of fingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 You haven't answered the questions! I have tried to answer all yours fully........without resorting to your level of language!You seem to have an opinion which you are quite right to express, but, as you have accused everyone who has disagreed with you for not researching the subject, how can you accuse others, if you have not done so yourself?! Er, I have. I've answered them in the thread, you're asking stuff we've already covered. Read up yourself! It is dissapointing that you cannot see the link between thumbprint scanning and the national database linked to ID cards. Maybe if you looked into the issue and looked at some of the links you would be able to see them? I have, there isn't any. Show me. "It isn't necessary, it's just a neat solution that fits well with schools and kids." Thank you for agreeing that it isn't necessary! It is a solution that fits in with the school, the children wouldn't be able to make that decision, which is why it needs parental consent. Lots of things aren't necessary, but will improve things. I'm all for improving things, not winging about them and making a fuss over nothing and scaring people for no reason with misinformation. I don't agree that the thumbprinting is improving things! The information is out there for people to see and make up their minds, I am NOT trying to misinform! You haven't provided any substance to your argument, where is your proof that the fingerprint scanner is great and infalible? Data is lost all the time, even with the best system in the world it gets dated and hackers learn how to break them, for fun! Others do it for profit....., for others it is the challenge, to be first! Each year the school will have a year group move up and their data will be destroyed by deleting the entry, is it permanently deleted, do they wipe the system, destroy the hard drive? Cost too much to do that as would the software to destroy the data! There is plenty of software available to reconstruct deleted files and break passwords, remember that the system if not kept up to date will be easier to infiltrate! The link between the thumbprint scanner and ID cards is that both will store your biometric data, the thumbprinting is a precurser, as people accept the change in technology, then when the national register needs them to provide all 10 prints, IRIS scan and other Biometrics as stated in the ID Act 2006, they will already be conditioned to accept it! The data at a later stage once it has been collected could be put online, transferred to another computer or department, depending on how the laws change over time. Once the database is started even for something as minor as a library book it will be added to, unless there is something built in to restrict the use, unfortunatly the act in its present form doesn't give that and it will be used extensively for the rest of our lives! This is why it needs to be debated and acted upon! Lets not forget that this was implimented in 4 schools without following another act - Data Protection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelslikeitshould Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 One day, when we visit the bank or library or wherever, they'll obtain our account info by making us wank into a DNA machine on the counter. I can't wait. What if you're a transsexual? (Not that I'm suggesting you are, are you...?) Or one of those poor bastards that can't reach orgasm? How's this going to work for women, may need a slightly different machine. Back to the drawing board Mr. Sausages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 One day, when we visit the bank or library or wherever, they'll obtain our account info by making us wank into a DNA machine on the counter. I can't wait. Only if the bank is a licensed deposit taker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 name='ai_Droid' date='Nov 20 2007, 09:26 AM' post='281382']Do you debate what books they read, what's on the corriculum Yes. Individual teachers do not set the broader initiatives such as the national curriculum, exam requirements etc. They have a choice of books and material to use off approved lists. They can't just go off and inflict what literature they want on your kids. This is no different. What sporting activities they do Yes. Again the broad rules are laid down external to a school itself often by the local education authority. What records they keep about your child? There is such a thing as the Data Protection Act that tells them what they can and cannot do. People who don't understand it, who are reacting to mis-informed scaremongering like the idiots above who bizzarely connect a thumbprint scanner with national ID cards People who don't understand it? Its interesting that the IT people who fail to understand the objections normal people might have are often the same nosey bastards who use the systems they manage to look up friends wages, or other personal info or details because "they can". That is my main problem with much of what is proposed as its more data for unprofessional idiots to piss about with because they are in a position of knowledge without many of the safeguards that other people might expect. Not a personal dig at all, but I've seen it happen so many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Yes. Individual teachers do not set the broader initiatives such as the national curriculum, exam requirements etc. They have a choice of books and material to use off approved lists. They can't just go off and inflict what literature they want on your kids. This is no different. Yes. Again the broad rules are laid down external to a school itself often by the local education authority. The point is YOU don't, the public doesn't get consulted and debated on school policy in the main, and we're not explicity asked to sign off and approve these decisions. It's entrusted to the school. People who don't understand it? Its interesting that the IT people who fail to understand the objections normal people might have are often the same nosey bastards who use the systems they manage to look up friends wages, or other personal info or details because "they can". That is my main problem with much of what is proposed as its more data for unprofessional idiots to piss about with because they are in a position of knowledge without many of the safeguards that other people might expect. Not a personal dig at all, but I've seen it happen so many times. Sigh. This is getting me down. It's a thumbprint scanner. It records a hash of some coordinates based on your thumbprint. There is no data to nose through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It is worrying that data has been lost and now people are wanting to close bank accounts etc, but the government say no need! Does that mean they could sue if their money or identity is stolen? As I have said before, it doesn't matter how careful people are with data it can always be lost, stolen or otherwise abused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I don't agree that the thumbprinting is improving things! Why not? Not having a card that can be lost is an improvement. Not having the administration overhead of cards is an improvement. Not having dinner money that will be lost or nicked is an improvement. Isn't that pretty obvious? The information is out there for people to see and make up their minds, I am NOT trying to misinform! You haven't provided any substance to your argument, where is your proof that the fingerprint scanner is great and infalible? Data is lost all the time, even with the best system in the world it gets dated and hackers learn how to break them, for fun! Others do it for profit....., for others it is the challenge, to be first! Fingerprint scanners aren't infallible, which is why you'll never see them used in the nature your suggesting. They're just not that strong, which makes them perfect for low security applications like this. You are misinforming, I've pointed out a few of your innacuracies, your mistakenly using propoganda websites and saying they're from the government is one example. Your leap of logic to ID cards and identity theft is another. Your accusing me of no substance, when all you have is scaremonger websites. I don't need substance, I'm not objecting to anything. I'm merely calling you for crying wolf. What's a hacker going to gain from breaking a thumbprint scanner. Explain it to me. Show me you understand this issue. What data will be lost? What can it be used for. Right at the top I asked you what exactly are you scared of, you've not answered that with anything that can be backed up. What, simply, is the risk? Each year the school will have a year group move up and their data will be destroyed by deleting the entry, is it permanently deleted, do they wipe the system, destroy the hard drive? Cost too much to do that as would the software to destroy the data! There is plenty of software available to reconstruct deleted files and break passwords, remember that the system if not kept up to date will be easier to infiltrate! Utter rubbish. What data? The hash of the thumbprint? Who cares? What can it be used for? It's useless other than for that system. And again, why is this wiping and hacking and reconstructing only an issue because it's attached to thumbprinting. In my lads school they've been taking photos of him all year, that's a far more invasive biometric, should that be wiped in the manner you suggest? Will a hacker try to recover it? Does anyone care? NO! The link between the thumbprint scanner and ID cards is that both will store your biometric data, the thumbprinting is a precurser, as people accept the change in technology, then when the national register needs them to provide all 10 prints, IRIS scan and other Biometrics as stated in the ID Act 2006, they will already be conditioned to accept it! You demand substance from me, where is yours that this is true? And I don't mean some website someones lashed up. It simply isn't true. It's rot, made up scaremongering rubbish. The data at a later stage once it has been collected could be put online, transferred to another computer or department, depending on how the laws change over time. Once the database is started even for something as minor as a library book it will be added to, unless there is something built in to restrict the use, unfortunatly the act in its present form doesn't give that and it will be used extensively for the rest of our lives! This is why it needs to be debated and acted upon! Lets not forget that this was implimented in 4 schools without following another act - Data Protection! This data exists anyway, thumbprints or not. Have you even listened to a word anyones said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The point is YOU don't, the public doesn't get consulted and debated on school policy in the main, and we're not explicity asked to sign off and approve these decisions. It's entrusted to the school. I'm sorry but most schools have parent teacher associations to debate such issues and run through the implications properly. Why else would a PTA exist? Furthermore here the Departmental Members of the Board of Education are democratically elected so where they are making decisions on policy they are accountable to the general public. As i said at the start I am guessing that this has actually drawn to their attention something they didn't realise was so prevalent and as such it is appropriate, as they are accountable to the general public, that they debate it and introduce a formal and appropriate policy for the handling of such data. It should not be down to the head of a school to make decisions which are this widesweeping. Identity fraud is rife and schools are vulnerable to all sorts of potential security breaches and the holding of sensitive data should be a political issue not a school issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I'm sorry but most schools have parent teacher associations to debate such issues and run through the implications properly. Why else would a PTA exist? Furthermore here the Departmental Members of the Board of Education are democratically elected so where they are making decisions on policy they are accountable to the general public. As i said at the start I am guessing that this has actually drawn to their attention something they didn't realise was so prevalent and as such it is appropriate, as they are accountable to the general public, that they debate it and introduce a formal and appropriate policy for the handling of such data. The PTA in our kids school are mainly fundraisers/helpers. I've never seen a pta involved in approving any school policy. But that aside, the claim was that parents should approve these changes, not the board of ed or any other committee, the rant was that every parent should be consulted and give approval. It should not be down to the head of a school to make decisions which are this widesweeping. Identity fraud is rife and schools are vulnerable to all sorts of potential security breaches and the holding of sensitive data should be a political issue not a school issue. What is sensitive data when using a thumbprint scanner? Explain it to me, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Fingerprint scanners aren't infallible, which is why you'll never see them used in the nature your suggesting. They're just not that strong, which makes them perfect for low security applications like this. So why is the UK planning to put each citizens fingerprints on the National Identity Register? and . . . Will this include Isle of Man residents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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