Albert Tatlock Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Your figures are flawed Surveys like this are inherently flawed. Should the total Island population be the one that is measure against for example? My 98 year old gran isn't ever going to book on the Steam Packet again and my three year old son wont be for some time. What would have been more revealing than a simple petition against, is a two question poll asking if you supported the timetable or not. That at least would give you a proportional figure of both sides of the argument. As it stands, by omission you could claim that over 98% of the population support the timetable because they have not expressed a feeling against it. Sort of. However, as an indicator, it should be taken seriously. You are right, though I think many of the first few hundred comments (e.g. 240 comments with the first 950 names) clearly reflect the majority of signatories as being Manx residents that use the services. However, now that it has hit the news (including the BBC), I suspect there will numerous signatories from the UK and TT fraternity likely to join in, especially if links to the petition hit various interested sites e.g. TT/Bikers forums. I have been Googling the past few days to see if it has spread, and in the last couple of days links to the petition have started to appear on a couple of sites. It will be interesting to see how things pan out with the petition over coming weeks, as things like this can often turn out to be viral in their spread on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Oooh a star is born!!! http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=11435 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Fantastic photo on the manx radio article there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I was not stating that the survey was flawed but that Albert's attempt at extrapulation were. I appreciate the points you sate and Albert has since. However my comment was specifically with regard to the estimations that Albert was using in his figures as he made allowances and commented on why the denominator way too large but made no comment or adjustments why is might be undersated. Unfortunately such little things bug me as they are used at times to skew figures to try and prove a point. Such as has been the case with the recent abortion debate in the UK and what % of babies survive if born at 24 weeks and has the percentage changed over the years. The basic answer is the figures have remained constant but in debates they do not appear to have done as different groups have used different denominators to try and illustrate a point. e.g they compare the percentage survival rates over time where in one case the denominator is all babies born at X weeks, against one where the denominator is all cases of babies born at x weeks and placed into an intensive care unit. There is a difference and unsurprisingly the results are different as many unfortunately who are born at that stage do not make it to an intensive care unit Getting back to your survey yes it is flawed but unless you conduct a Mori type poll most are. You realise that as well as the rest of us. I have to admit that I do not expect much to come out of the petition but the government appear keen on polls and consultaion. I would quite like a detailed one with regards to the ferry, not necessary relating to the Steam Packet but where by people state what they currently think, how often they use it, would a change in price and frequency increase there use of it etc. They could also state what they are looking for with regard to the service. From that a decent report could be produced which outline what people want ideally and the financial costs/benefit of providing what the majority are looking for. Ideally I like the idea of two boats/fast craft doing two return jouneys each day minimum to Liverpool & Heysham. Maybe only one a day in the winter with times more likely to suit me. I like the idea of cheaper fares, cheaper food, etc etc but would it alter my frequency of use. Probably not. I think that is the problem I have with most complaints against the Steam Packet as we all love to complain, and at times within reason, but if our complaints were listened would it greatly alter our use of the boat. I am not sure. Many are up in arms about the lose of day trips but how many actually used the facility are the complaints because it will actually disadvantage people or because they are peceived as being disadvantaged because a service which they could but do not use is taken away. Personally I like the idea rather than nationalising to resolve the issue of cost all Manx residents are given by Govt one voucher for a return sailing each year. I do not want prices to go to cheap as would the Island suffer from being like a ghost town at weekends as everybody gets off the rock. Would local shops suffer as everybody goes to shop in the UK Your figures are flawed Surveys like this are inherently flawed. Should the total Island population be the one that is measure against for example? My 98 year old gran isn't ever going to book on the Steam Packet again and my three year old son wont be for some time. What would have been more revealing than a simple petition against, is a two question poll asking if you supported the timetable or not. That at least would give you a proportional figure of both sides of the argument. As it stands, by omission you could claim that over 98% of the population support the timetable because they have not expressed a feeling against it. Sort of. However, as an indicator, it should be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Travelwatch "Representing and promoting the interests Isle of Man Passengers" are holding a public meeting Sat 17th November Villa Marina (not specifically re SP). May be of interest. Perhaps someone could provide a link to their website - I'm no good at that stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 google gives this link, but it doesn't resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 The man who started a petition after weekend ferry trips to Liverpool were dropped says it is a "vital service". Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7082818.stm Thanks for misquoting me, BBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 It's the beginning of the disinformation campaign........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I just noticed it on Ceefax too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 This is really making waves (no pun intended). Now also in the Top 25 active petitions on that site and 1420+ at last count. The change from Ferry firm in petition challenge A ferry firm has said many people signing an online petition against the ending of winter trips to Liverpool would never have used the service. to Liverpool ferry trips considered Ferry trips between the Isle of Man and Liverpool may be re-instated in the run-up to Christmas after more than 1,000 people signed an online petition. is also quite remarkable. All credit to the scores of people that signed it and expressed their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fartypants Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I do not want prices to go to cheap as would the Island suffer from being like a ghost town at weekends as everybody gets off the rock. Would local shops suffer as everybody goes to shop in the UK My word, how big is their boat? 80,000+ people supposed to live here. Me thinks some might stay behind at the weekends. As for using a service more often because it was cheaper, of coarse people would. Thats like saying would more people fly to europe if ticket prices were a lot cheaper, Ryanair and easy jet would be long gone if people didn't use the service just because it's cheap. Can't tell me all those people off to Barcelona for a couple of days for £19 would have gone if the price was £ 450. IT'S COMMON BUSINESS SENCE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=^..^= Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I heard the news on the radio earlier today. Now- if they can get me into Liverpool by 10:30 on saturday 24th Nov, sat 1st dec, 19th jan, 26th jan, 9th feb I'll be on the boat I might stay more than a day though. Do you think they'll mind ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggle Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 If they put on a sailing that got me to liverpool for 0900 and left liverpool at 2100 I would use it often. Probably a few times per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*daniel* Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Liverpool ferry trips considered Ferry trips between the Isle of Man and Liverpool may be re-instated in the run-up to Christmas after more than 1,000 people signed an online petition. is also quite remarkable. All credit to the scores of people that signed it and expressed their opinions. But that isn't what we were fighting for? They've only done this for good PR, GIVE US THE REST OF WHAT WE WANT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Liverpool ferry trips considered Ferry trips between the Isle of Man and Liverpool may be re-instated in the run-up to Christmas after more than 1,000 people signed an online petition. is also quite remarkable. All credit to the scores of people that signed it and expressed their opinions. But that isn't what we were fighting for? They've only done this for good PR, GIVE US THE REST OF WHAT WE WANT!!! Steam Packet must be banking that all those who signed the petition will be banging down the doors of their ticket office to book their day trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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