Steam Packet - Oft Petition

[Declan]

Thank you Amadeus : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/isle_of_man/7094640.stm

 

Bravo!

 

Reading the article again, after the comments above, it seems I didn't realise that Liverpool Pier Head was still Birkenhead. I assumed it was the normal Liverpool dock. So yeah, no changes.

 

Bravo withdrawn.

 

Liverpool Pier Head is in Liverpool.

[ans]

Ok, is it the dock by the Liver building?

[monasqueen]

Thought it might be appropriate now to quote directly from Mr Woodward's Blog of 4 July 2007:

 

"I’ve also been asked about our winter service - the Liverpool winter service is of course a trade off between speed and reliability. Some of our customers prefer a slower speed with more weather reliability, while others prefer the high speed craft albeit they can be more affected by weather. We’re currently working towards how we might further improve the reliability of our winter Liverpool service. There are many issues to overcome first though."

 

And from the Blog of 10 July 2007:

 

"Regarding conventional craft to Liverpool in winter months. A number of our passengers have requested this preferring reliability over speed and fastcraft are less reliable in the winter months due to occasional adverse weather. The Ben-my-Chree to Birkenhead in March did prove popular but unfortunately we have to service our regular freight demands and ensure we can provide an overnight Heysham service. Therefore the Ben cannot leave Liverpool on Saturday evening and day trips would have to be via Heysham Express Coach Services."

 

So what they have now announced as a "new" service, is nothing more than what they have known for months was the only alternative with the vessel(s) they've got.

 

Oh, and by the way, the £99 "offer" appears to be very restricted indeed, and it will not be available every weekend - there is no 02:15 hours Ferry service from Heysham Sundays 9th December, 13th January, 3rd February or 23rd February.

 

Euromanx must be rubbing their hands (and their wallets) with glee.

 

MQ

[Amadeus]

Ok, is it the dock by the Liver building?

It deffo still docks on the other side of the Mersey, i.e. Birkenhead.

 

Reassuring to know we have royal approval now :

 

2073. The Queen of England - My fellow citizens, this is outrageous. I am going to smack Mr McQuarie's bottom.

 

And there's a rumour the story will make it onto the border news during GM.TV on Monday or something - just a rumour, though, and it's not from Peel, so probably nothing...nah..disregard it - the camera didn't even look real...

[Laxeyman]

Everyone think about this, our Govm’t has just been elected they have what…. another 6 years to go, nice comfy jobs, with NO Govm’t whip to give a uniformed policy to sort out steam packet so all the MHK's have to think on their own!!!

 

They will all run for cover AS, they simply don’t know what to do!! Which one of them will stick their neck out?? None of them, Manx Radio gets 1m a year from our Govm't are they going to push the story? 3 FM have stopped reporting - Steam Packet pay good money for the adverts? Border I spoke to can’t get anybody to comment from our Govm’t or Steam packet. So it is a media blackout AGAIN!!

 

So far out of 75,000 people on the Island this is a fantastic show for a petition. If we want to make them do something we must tell all our friends to sign the petition. Once it gets to say 5000 Mr Tony Brown MHK our so-called head of Govm’t will feel un easy for the job he is elected for and then may act.

 

How else do we get this changed this is a long term agreement between our Govm’t and Steam Packet or to put it another way a monopoly………..you know like the one we had at Manx Telecom, there will be no change UNTIL we keep this going. All our Govm’t wants is this to fade away and die down and it will if we don’t tell friends and family to get the numbers up.

 

I am going to write to Tony Brown and ask if he has seen his fellow Islanders comments on this site, If a few more ordinary people who never complain also do this he will worry that people will not like him next time around.

 

The boat is the A number 1 item we ALL need. They let BA in to sell off the Heathrow link and for the second time BA dumped us and left when they got what they wanted this would go the same way. WE NEED MORE SIGNTURES

 

Laxeyman

[Mission]

It's hardly a media blackout - re-read the post directly above yours again.

 

It was on the news daily on Energy FM for the last two weeks and has been on the front page of the Independat two weeks running.

 

Oh, and it's government (just incase you were unsure of how it was spelt).

[Laxeyman]

It's hardly a media blackout - re-read the post directly above yours again.

 

It was on the news daily on Energy FM for the last two weeks and has been on the front page of the Independat two weeks running.

 

Oh, and it's government (just incase you were unsure of how it was spelt).

 

a little confrontational, but never mind, I think most readers understand the essence of what I was saying.

[Mission]

It wasn't confrontational in the least, I was merely pointing out that there isn't a media blackout.

[Threeneck]

The Steam Packet are operating just as they are allowed to, in a text book example of a company with no moral code, no restriction no, comeback for anything they do. Look at the frequent traveller discount removed as soon as the bank took over, the frequent users in a normal customer service environment would be the people the company would look after and try to pamper, in our situation motivated only by naked greed they increase the fare by 20%. We have no way to change things until they either sell the company or we dig a tunnel, we cant boycott them because we need to eat and get off the Island sometimes. . The Govt are unable to help, they would never dare to do anything radical like challenge a big rich company.

I have been using the ferries for more than 30 years and I used the think the Mickey Mouseness of the operation was part of the charm of the Island but now a soulless bank has our lifeline in its grasp it is like the motivation of the government in Orwells 1984 to continually stamp on our faces and as a bonus they are taking our money as well.

[triskelion]

Christ you would think they had stopped putting on any sailings.

 

If you check ferries to other British Islands, such as Jersey and Shetland, you will discover that the Steam Packet's fares actually are comparable, rather than extortionate. Too often people compare them with much more popular routes such as Dublin to Liverpool, which is actually completly unfair. Its like when ignorant people compare a flight from Ronaldsway to Liverpool with one from Liverpool to Alicante or wherever on Easyjet; as if a proper comparison can be made.

 

Furthermore, I cannot understand why people think a reduced winter service is so shocking, as it happens with most travel operators in the World. We do not NEED the Douglas-Liverpool route, as it is used solely by tourists, except for six times a year when the students come and go (who are all quite capable of sailing from Birkenhead if they were sailing from Liverpool). All the business people fly (and rarely to Liverpool). Hardly anyone used the Liverpool service during the week in the winter and it is totally unreasonable to expect the Steam Packet to run a loss-making service just so people can go on a day trip on Saturdays.

 

People seem to think the Government should lean on the SP to 'improve' this perfectly reasonable timetable. Yet also they seem to be under the false impression that another ferry company would do any better. Why? Clearly if there was money to be made from a more regular winter service the Steam Packet would be doing it.

 

As for complaints about prices rises, it is hardly surprising that prices have gone up given that oil has trebled in price over the last six years. It isn't as though there is much scope for price cuts either.

[Huggybear]

Please find below a letter I received from Capt brew and the reply I sent him regarding the current situation with the service (or lack of) on the Weekends via Steam Packet.

 

I urge everyone to lobby theri MHK's re this and let them know that we as the Manx Tax payers will not tollerate this situation!

 

Dear Captain Brew

 

Thank you for your reply below which I have to say that I am far from satisfied with and will be lobbying my MHK in regards to.

 

There are various loopholes in your response. The main one being regarding customer feedback? I visited the DOT website last week and found about 10 mails also complaining about this draconian measure. The main problem I have is that this decission was made without ANY consultation whatosoever of the Manx Residents. And in making this decission Steam Packet has well and truly cut its nose off to spite it's face.

 

You cannot brush of criticism as "regretable" you need to respond to it. There are several major problems that you have caused by making this decission that I have bulleted below.

 

It is no longer possible to have a weekend day trip to Liverpool as many Manx Residents like to do in the run up to Christmas.

Season ticket holders to Liverpool/ Everton and other football clubs have suffered because of this decission. They have forked out hundreds of pounds on season ticckets in the hope that a ferry service would be provided that can get them there and back in a day.

There is the added inconvenience of the craft docking at Birkenhead. Water needs to be negotiated again before we can get to Liverpool!!

Other sports trips will be disrupted due to this measure. Our teams will no longer be able to get to and from this island in a day without flying or without the added expense of accomodation or overnight sailing.

In doing this I am sure there is some basic EEC regulation on Moniopolising transport routes that you are breaking?

Families that live apart (as I Do) have had a valuable weekend link severed putting strain on relationships.You have on the whole isolated the Island from the UK at weekends when most people are available to travel.

Contrary to your claim below this new scedule does not meet the needs of the majority traveling public. Please refer to the DOT website for conclusive proof.

I also challenge your claim that other companies who can run a service from the island would be relatively "rare"

 

The only reason companies have not been allowed to do this in the past is because the Manx Government have not allowed it allowing Steam Packet to have the monopoly. This recent decission by yourselves should now be the straw that breaks the camels back and allows competition to happen. After all, Mobile telecommunications have done it?

 

And ferries have to pass here to get to Ireland so why not let them call here en route? You refer to terms of agreement that exist? This is why I feel govermnment need to get involved to change them and I'm sure there are vessels out there that can dock in Douglas harbour as they are not much bigger than the Ben My Chree??>The current "agreements" that exist need to be changed.

 

Steam Packet would also do good to realise also that The Sea Terminal Building is a Government Building.

 

I also strongly dissagree that the Steam Packet Supports more sailings to and from the Island. Fact remains that services have got progressively worse because the company will not address the wants and needs of Manx Residents.

 

I find your reply below a shallow response to a glareing problem that you have with fullfilling a mandate to the people of the Isle of Man for a regular efficient boat service to and from the UK and Ireland and I would urge whoevers decission it was to take off the weekend sailings via seacat to tender their resignation forthwith.

 

I will be forwarding your orriginal letter and this reply to my MHK and will be attempting to get the support of other users of the weekend services to lobby their MHK's to get something done about this sorry mess.

 

I'm sorry that you are not prepared to listen to the taxpayers of our Island but maybe you will listen to our elected representatives.

 

Yours sincerely

 

***********

 

> Subject: RE: Contact From Web Site

> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:16:32 +0000

> From: Enquiries.HarboursDOT@gov.im

> To: *************>

> Dear Mr ********

>

> I refer to your email dated 20th October 2007 in which you complain about the changes to the Steam Packet's schedule for the coming winter.

>

> In previous years when the Company has operated weekend fastcraft services to Liverpool over the winter it has been criticised for operating an unpredictable and potentially disrupted service. In reviewing its options for the coming winter the Company took note of significant customer feedback regarding unreliable winter services and decided to offer certainty and reliability as that is what the majority wished to see in place. In making these changes, the Company has recognised that there will be some people, such as yourself, who feel disadvantaged. This is of course regrettable but the Company consider that the new schedule will meet the needs of the majority of the travelling public.

>

> Regarding your suggestion that "Tynwald invite tenders from other sea going organisations to have a rival service". The other companies that could potentially offer a passenger service from Liverpool to the Isle of Man are relatively rare. Those companies that do provide similar services have vessels that could not berth in Douglas harbour due to their size and, in any case, their vessels are fully utilised. Also, the terms of the User Agreement place restrictions on the use of the Department's linkspan on the Edward Pier in exchange for a guaranteed minimum service. The other linkspan in Douglas harbour, on the Victoria Pier, is owned entirely by the Steam Packet Company. Therefore if another ferry operator was to use Douglas harbour it would have to do so without the use of the existing linkspans. This obviously places a practical barrier in achieving a rival service.

>

> The Department and the Company recognises that the travelling public wish to have more sailings to and from the Islands and we continue to work together to achieve this objective. We also work with the Department of Tourism and Leisure, to ensure that as wide spread a service as possible is put in place. For example, the Department of Tourism and Leisure worked closely with the Steam Packet Company to target marketing initiatives in support of the Company's services.

>

> I hope that the above is sufficient an explanation for you but if it is not please do not hesitate to contact me again.

>

> Regards

>

> Captain Michael Brew

>

> Director of Harbours

> Department of Transport

> Sea Terminal Building

> Douglas

> Isle of Man

> IM1 2RF

> 01624 686626

> michael.brew@gov.im

>

 

--- edited by mod to remove personal information ---

[triskelion]

Huggybear, your argument is terrible and your obviously hysterical rantings typifiy all that is wrong with the Steam Packet debate.

 

Lets first take the groups that you claim are seriously disadvantaged: Day trippers, football fans, 'sports teams,' and people who live apart from their family. The numbers involved here are very small, and their travel is purely on weekends, making it TOTALLY IMPRACTICAL to maintain a service simply for them. As I said my above post, it is completely unrealistic to expect any company to provide such a service on this basis. Just because there are people that want a service does not mean that running it is therefore what should be done.

 

The idea that the ferry service can be compared to the Island's mobile communications is utterly absurd. There are again simply not the numbers of people who need to use the ferry to make competition viable.

 

Furthermore, you are totally over-reacting to the distance between Birkenhead and Liverpool - It is a seven minute train journey to Liverpool Lime Street from the nearby Hamilton Square Station.

 

Why would ferries of other companies want to stop at the Island on route to other destinations? It would hours to the journey time with very little benefit for the companies and a much lower quality of service for other passengers.

 

Your expectations are completely unrealistic and if the MHKs have any sense they will continue to ignore ignorant bleatings like yours.

[Alias]

Also might want to write and spell it more coherently. I wouldn't bother reading that if I was a captain.

[triskelion]

Just had look through through the petition and many of comments are in the same vein: 'Steam Packet is rubbish,' 'I want shopping day trips,' 'I can't go to a football match,' 'Nationalise the Steam Packet and bring back Manx Airlines,' etc.

 

The problem with this petition is that it merely an expression of discontentment, and so is by itself insufficient for the Steam Packet to justify restoring the Liverpool service (even if it could). Just because 2100+ people have signed it does not mean that all, or even most, of these people would use the service at all.

 

The only way I can see that the Steam Packet (or actually a new party if they operated out of Ramsey Harbour, I guess) could maintain the Liverpool service is if they used a small, fast, foot-passengers only ferry. Since the SuperSeaCat cruises at a speed equivalent to that of fast attack craft it probably wouldn't be much faster (though embarkation/disembarkation times would be greatly reduced). Also it would be much more vulnerable to the notoriously rough Irish Sea. But beyond that...

[monasqueen]

Triskelion has clearly never been to Birkenhead, or walked between 12 Quays and Birkenhead Hamilton Square (on a dry day, never mind a wet day).

 

It is NOT nearby!!! It takes up to half an hour to walk it, by someone who is reasonably fit - and yes, I have done it, so speak from experience. There are no buses in the area to help out, either.

 

MQ