Steam Packet - Oft Petition

[monasqueen]

In December 2003, 11,251 people arrived in Douglas from Liverpool. In December 2006, the number was only 4,873. It seems that the Steam Packet has deliberately driven people away, so that they can stop running to Liverpool altogether.

 

In 2004, before the User Agreement was extended, Tynwald was promised that a replacement fast craft would "soon" be purchased to replace the "elderly Lady of Mann" and the "existing small SeaCat" (Seacat Isle of Man). Our politicians should be asking why that promise was not kept. Why is it now necessary to repair the Seacat, after it was allegedly an insurance write-off, when it should have been replaced 3 years ago, as it was then described as being "constrained by its limited vehicle capacity"?

 

There are good all weather vessels being produced that will carry passengers, cars, and freight (and in a lot more comfort than Ben my Chree!) with service speeds of 25 knots (about what the "fast" craft has regularly been doing on 3 engines). One of these would enable the Racket to get back a bit more customer support, and build (rebuild?) its services, both to Liverpool, and to the Irish ports which have sadly been completely neglected over the last few years. Unfortunately, the cost of a newbuild is not getting any less, and the minimum amount named in the User Agreement agreement for fleet improvement will go nowhere near providing the decent replacement vessel that we badly need. The Steam Packet must be fully aware that there is a reducing number of vessels around the world that are small enough for both Heysham and Douglas, and there is very little availability 2nd hand - certainly not young enough or fast enough to service the Island's needs. A decent newbuild may be the only feasible way forward - and the sooner this is progressed, the better. Some serious commitment needs to be shown to the Island's long term needs.

 

It is a sad indictment that the total winter passengers (November to January inclusive) from both Heysham and Douglas are still substantially less than they were 4 years ago, despite the increases in the Island's population and car ownership over the same period. There is something very wrong if the company cannot show an increase where there is much potential for a developing market.

 

(The figures are all available on the gov.im/harbours or transport website).

 

Why is it that no other vessel can come into Douglas when there are 2 linkspans and only one ship using them? And why does Ben "have to" use the Government's linkspan when it could use the Steam Packet's own? Is this so that foot passengers are forced into using that expensive footbridge rather than get off by the Sea Terminal?

 

MQ

[triskelion]

Whilst I'll admit that I have never been to Birkenhead, according to Google Maps the distance is under a mile.

 

Additionally, the Steam Packet is running a coach between the Liverpool landing stage and Twelve Quays.

[monasqueen]

There are more passenger ships than Ben that use 12 Quays

 

It is not a direct walk - there is a long way to go round the security fences.

[triskelion]

I'm aware that other ships use twelve quays - after all, the map it on the Steam Packet website was actually made by a different ferry company!

 

I'm still not convinced it is a good half hour walk to Hamilton Square station, but with the courtesy bus, it isn't such a big issue.

 

I've tried to find those passenger figures you mention on the DoT and Harbours websites but I couldn't see them anywhere. I have seen them before through the Government's rss news feed, so I know they exist somewhere. Could you link me up please?

 

Just "for the record," I fully agree that the current Steam Packet situation is not great. However, after a torturous few hours of the Seacat crossing to Liverpool in January (with about 15 other passengers tops) I'm not sure it is a great idea to use it. I do sympathise with the people that wish to go to Liverpool for weekend day trips etc, I'm just not sure there is currently a reasonable solution.

[VikingRaider]

I'm just not sure there is currently a reasonable solution.

 

But that surely is the whole point is it not ? If the Ben were to have a problem then the only alternative is the SuperSeacat (that is assuming that whatever they are doing to it in Alexandra Dock is not important). By the Racket's own admission she is not reliable enough at this time of year so what else do they propose to use at short notice ?

 

The current situation is ludicrous and unless the Racket are prepared to invest in a proper, reliable secondary boat then competition should be allowed immediately to avoid this ransom situation the island currently finds itself in.

 

MHK's you should hang your heads in shame at allowing this situation to develop and not having the guts to do something about it.

[molly]

Would a simple answer be to have the regular twice a day sailing to uk dock at liverpool and do away with heyshem? presuming that 12 quays can deal with freight.

[monasqueen]

Yes, the Government's website is not terribly user friendly, is it!

 

The Douglas Harbour figures are released as news items each month. The following is a link to the list that includes last December's figures. It is just about possible to go back as far as 2000 through the archives, and interesting reading they make.

 

http://www.gov.im/harbours/allnews.gov?page=2

 

Each years December figures include a break-down for the year as a whole, but this does not show seasonal (or monthly) fluctuations. They do include figures for all ports, however, and looking at these gives a reminder of the number of ports that the vessels have been known to go to. (See below, however - the yearly totals do not appear to be purely Steam Packet arrivals.)

 

Going back to earlier years takes a bit of digging, as some months appear to be missing (but can mostly be obtained by using the "previous year" figures from the same month of the following year). Some are on the Transport page, rather than the Harbours page (but both are openable from the above link).

 

The summer figures do not give an accurate reflection of Steam Packet passenger arrivals, as they include cruise ship passenger figures - see September 2007, where The Director of Harbours comments "The six cruise liners seen in September have contributed to an excellent month’s passenger figures". It is a pity that these are not separated out (including the figures for the Balmoral) - it would be good to see just how many tourists the cruise ships are bringing in. (A point for Michael Brew to take up?)

 

 

MQ

[triskelion]

But that surely is the whole point is it not ? If the Ben were to have a problem then the only alternative is the SuperSeacat (that is assuming that whatever they are doing to it in Alexandra Dock is not important). By the Racket's own admission she is not reliable enough at this time of year so what else do they propose to use at short notice ?

 

What do they propose to do? They are running a reduced winter timetable with the Ben serving Birkenhead and Heysham; there is no dire need for something else at this moment in time, as the Heysham route is the only one the Island actually depends on.

 

The current situation is ludicrous and unless the Racket are prepared to invest in a proper, reliable secondary boat then competition should be allowed immediately to avoid this ransom situation the island currently finds itself in.

 

As if the situation is really that simple? Clearly a fastcraft is unsuitable for winter service, making the alternative a standard car ferry or a foot passengers-only service that would be cheaper to run but vulnerable to weather conditions. What would this secondary boat do between March and November, apart from provide extra capacity and TT and Grand Prix? Is it financially justifiable? I'll keep saying it: The Steam Packet should not be expected to operate at a loss purely so people can go to Liverpool at a weekend.

 

Also, why do so many people think that competition would help here? There simply aren't the passenger numbers to justify it. Even on major ferry routes there is usually only a sole operator. Shipping is slow and expensive; it does not lend itself to a fast, competitive market like mobile telecommunications or retail - especially not when the market is one as tiny as the Isle of Man.

 

MHK's you should hang your heads in shame at allowing this situation to develop and not having the guts to do something about it.

 

Yes its all their fault rather than declining passenger numbers, a tripling of oil prices and increased competition from air services. What constructive approach could the Tynwald actually have taken? Its easy to demand the Government take action, but there actually has to be useful action it can take.

[monasqueen]

Sorry, you cannot use 12 Quays as an all year round option - it is used by regular services between Birkenhead and Belfast and Dublin. Yes, it can cope with freight, but there is no linkspan space other than the midday period (which the Ben is using) and a corresponding midnight slot.

 

Adding Manx freight to the Irish traffic would probably put serious strain on marshalling areas, and Norfolk Line would be unlikely to welcome another regular operator who might upset their own schedules.

 

MQ

[monasqueen]

the alternative a standard car ferry or a foot passengers-only service that would be cheaper to run but vulnerable to weather conditions. What would this secondary boat do between March and November

 

The Lady of Mann used to go away to the Azores for summer holidays, and brought in some valuable charter fees. After the Lady was sold, the Azores had to find a new ship for their summer services. Perhaps we could now borrow their ship for the winter?

 

[triskelion]

Passengers arriving from Liverpool:

 

2001 - 274,009

 

2002 - 319,232

 

2003 - 323,146

 

2004 - 300,407

 

2005 - 279,196

 

2006 - 264,958

 

2007 - 112,880 (Partial number skewed by Centenary TT and SeaExpressOne Accident) (Only inculdes months feb-june)

 

The Lady of Mann used to go away to the Azores for summer holidays, and brought in some valuable charter fees. After the Lady was sold, the Azores had to find a new ship for their summer services. Perhaps we could now borrow their ship for the winter?

 

 

So...why was the Lady of Mann sold?

 

EDIT: Ah, it was 30 years old. Shame a solution couldn't be find where Steam Packet bought a new ship that performed exactly the same service. Maybe they just don't make ships like that any more.

[bluemonday]

Hoorah!

Amadeus on ITV Border News with a good plug for manxforums.com just now.

Well said!

[Laxeyman]

I totally agree with Threeneck & Huggybear This looks like a lively debate and as we live in a democracy it is very interesting to read what we all feel. We have new people getting involved and signing up to this site rather than the traditional contributors and thus fresh views (including the puns about using abbreviations and spelling etc).

 

How about considering this situation to add to this debate. A group of us (4) have a small business that exports to companies in the UK. This is not a big business but we bring home the bacon (just), we pay our taxes, in turn our Govm’t spends the money. Our costs have now increased as our 2 small vans loaded HAD, the flexibility to hit the road and be on site in Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, and London in 3.5-4.5 Hrs. All this from LIVERPOOL in the winter. (Yes not every year, but one likes to think it will)

 

We are proud that we export from the Island not many companies do, the money we earn is a very small drop in the ocean for the IOM economy; “some” of our competitors are from the Channel Islands, who now have a subsidised service provided by British Midland Airways and the Jersey Govm’t to Heathrow with no VAT to boot. We still win 1-2 out of 5 contracts on service we provide! (Remember we used to have Heathrow till it was asset stripped, we were dumped for the second time by BA, the skill set was lost at the airport with the servicing of the aircraft etc This would not be so bad elsewhere but we are an Island so it impacts……….We don’t mind the competition BUT, what I DO mind is the goal posts moving and no certain stability of a essential service being kept to allow us to plan and cost ahead! (It’s like walking around in the dark!)

 

The Heysham only route 90% of the time now impacts for us with service level agreements. i.e. we have to be on site if our equipment goes down with in an agreed time frame. I hope we all agree that diverse economies need to sometimes export or do we always have all our eggs in the banking and insurance market no matter what the future holds?

 

When we can fly all our sensitive test gear runs the risk of damage when it is “chucked/thrown” in the aircraft hold………..don’t go there to take it in the cabin we all know now that we can’t………

 

I take my hat off to Ann Reynolds the airport director, who has worked to restore the Luton air link. As I said the companies “based” from the Channel Islands with no VAT to charge (sometimes) and a subsidised link to Heathrow will always beat us, as they can get right to the front door quicker than us! Ann has made it possible for us to be in the ring competing again now Luton is back, when we can fly that is without to many tools (London City and Gatwick forget it by air in time)

 

Now back to the issue. As fast as we fix the air link against other similar domains (Channel Islands) up pops this monopoly problem with IOMSP all we need is a level playing field to keep exporting. Who owns this company read this link below and I mean all of it

 

 

The Steam Packet has an agreement with our Govm’t till 2026! And an option to extend for another 6 years beyond (Oh dear or something similar your thinking!) The only way we will change this is to make it an election issue. By getting the “Newly elected” council of ministers to change this in what 6 years…BUT WAIT!!

 

We have no party system here in the Isle of Man and therefore no Govm’t whip so; Tony Brown MHK is replaced “ONLY” if enough people in “HIS” constituency think he has not done a good job (NOT HIS PARTY WHERE WE ALL GET A SAY). In turn if this is so the new guy comes in and yes you’ve got it says I cant fix this on my own (hoping it will go away) and the “no change” monopoly situation with IOMSP goes on, and on, and on till 2026!

 

Before anybody has a pop at what I’m saying here what if everything was OK and we for any other reason wanted to change this agreement. Err we cant! Nice and cosy if you’re an MHK you don’t have to do ANYTHING AT ALL!! But been seen in Manx Tails having a ball opening this or that! No accountability, draw your pay and hope for the best………..you never know it might rain next Tuesday and it will all come out in the wash!! Anyone heard form our Govm’t on this subject am I wrong? The silence is defining, and what about the MHK’s that do care? What acting on there own as much chance as I have meeting the pope in Athol Street!

 

Read this link below

 

 

No wonder IOMSP was sold for £225 million where did they print the cash in the engine room on the way over? The business and social world has changed dramatically since this deal was done and we have to move with this new world, not to be encased in a straight jacket till 2026 to be squeezed! If there is any blame the deal is too long to take all this into account.

 

We are unique society something’s sometimes are better owned by the people that’s US!! Are we saying that the DOT does a bad job? Looking at the bus, roads, train, and tram services they run for us here in the IOM they do a great job! Look how the Blair Govm’t took back Network rail via the back door (As it got out of hand, got slack, and started to take the P** out of it’s customers). However we don’t have anyone that has the balls to do this with IOMSP do we?

 

My view is we need to be in control of whatever is in front of us as an Island who knows how we need to provide transport in the future. 2026 with a bank dictating what we do and how we earn our cash…mmmm!

 

NOT A NICE THOUGHT UNLESS WE ALL LOVE BANKS!!!!

 

NATIONALISE IT! At least we can influence our Govm’t to provide a service that we need to run our island where and when we need it!

 

I rest my case! And wait for my slating in due course!

[Alias]

NATIONALISE IT! At least we can influence our Govm’t to provide a service that we need to run our island where and when we need it!

I'm not relating this to the actual situation, but that's exactly the problem with nationalising - groups with more lobbying power get services that we all get lumbered paying for, and if the boats ended up running as uneconomically as the buses say it's quite a tab that we would all have to pay..

[catwoman10]

I just wanted to say thanks at last someone is shouting for us, to stop steam packet having the monopoly on us yet again. I joined this forum so i could sign the petition well done, and its signed, hope it works but doubtful as usual, although it did get a slot on the news.........yesss well done again.