Steam Packet - Oft Petition

["V"]

I don't want to teach any of my "grandparents" to suck egg but I think a little history might help with understand of what has and is going on.

 

When I first moved to the Island in the early 80's there were two carriers:

ManxLine to Heyham (owned by Geoff Duke) and the IOMSP to Liverpool, Fleetwood, Llandudno, Ardrossan, Belfast and Dublin.

Freight was carried by IOMSP on the "Peveril" from Princess Dock (site of the Crowne Plazza/Malmaison now) in Liverpool (and later on the MV "Jaguar" Ro-Ro from Gladstone Dock - renamed "Peveril" and on the ManxLine ro-ro "Manx Viking"

 

Competition was fierce and I seem to recall not always fair.

The IOMSP ran the "Peveril" overnight with freight.

From March to November IOMSP ran two car/passenger boats each way between Liverpool/Douglas (The boats used to often pass each other at the Mersey Bar). In the winter there was one boat each way each day but extra sailings at weekends (including a "mid-night" boat to Liverpool on Friday night) for day trippers.

 

Newcomers might not believe it but at this time the IOMSP had "Lady of Man", "Ben my Chree", "Monas Queen" and "Manx Maid" in regular service so seasonal services to Fleetwood, Llandudno, Scotland and Ireland were regular and at peak times in the winter (Christmas, October holidays) boats to Ireland were put on.

 

Problems started once ManxLine was purchased by Sea Containers who owned Heysham Port.

Competition got even fiercer and ended with the IOMSP/ManxLine both almost going bust. Jim Sherwood the American owner of Sea Containers bought IOMSP and merged the companies.

To maximise profits he moved all freight and passenger services to "his" Port - Heysham. Liverpool was effectively abandoned. Like today as a "sop" to the Manx public coaches were laid on between Heysham and Liverpool.

 

The outcry over leaving Liverpool was huge. Manx Airlines made massive amounts of business out of it by putting on "Farecracker" flights at £15 each way to Liverpool. These were so popular at weekends that the 146 jet was used.

After a couple of threats that rival sea carriers would take up the route ans with the IOM Govt building its own "LinkSpan" the treat of competition meant that IOMSP returned with a Summer service to Liverpool (I think this was about 18 months after the pull out).

 

With the Govt now owning one of the two "LinkSpans" in Douglas there was always the threat that the IOMSP momoply over sea traffic could be threatened, and so started the saga that is the "User Agreement".

The IOMSP sited how bad competition was because both ManxLine and IOMSP nearly went bust and besides which they were the good guys, offering the King Orry to Heysham for passengers, the MV Peveril for freight, Lady of Man for Liverpool and "fast craft". Sea Containers owned a number of Sea Cats which became surplus to requirements when the Channel Tunnel opened - were better to send them than the IOM!!!

 

So with the help of the Manx government the IOMSP had a state sponsored monoply.

They "invested" in the combination ferry "Ben-my-Chree" and sold the aging "King Orry" and "Peveril" and started using the Sea Cat to Liverpool. This seemed to work fine, beacuse the "Lady of Man" was sat in Birkenhead to be used as and when - winter passage to Liverpool (I have been on her in a force 10 and never felt safer), TT rush and when other vessels needed inspections etc.

The current problems started when the IOMSP was sold to venture capitalists Montague and then re-sold to MacQuarrie.

I was never a fan of Jim Sherwood and Sea Containers but at least he was a "shipping" man.

Montague and MacQuarrie see the IOMSP as a "cash cow"- there aren't many state sponsored monoplies that venture capitalists can invest in.

The renegotiated the User Agreement to 2026 !! on the promise of investing in new vessels to replace the Lady of Man and aging Sea Cat. The Lady was sold along with IOMSP land assets in Douglas; but the horizion doesn't show even the slightest glimps of a replacement (and why should it IOMSP is guaranteed its Monomply provided it runs one boat a day to Heysham and one a week to Liverpool!!). You might call this asset stripping but I couldn't possibly comment!

 

Now we are upto date with the IOMSP trying to provide a service with one Ro-Pax ferry and one aging Sea Cat -which can't really sail in anything more than Force 6.

 

The people of the Isle of Man have never wanted to go to Heysham. Our port of choice has always been Liverpool.

Look at the comparision:

 

For Cars:

Liverpool - quick links to M6, M53/56, M62

Heysham - access to Northern M6 via Lancaster "bottle neck" (easy access to Morecombe)

 

On Foot:

Liverpool - 5 minutes walk to City Centre

10 minutes walk to Lime Street Railway station (links to all UK and now Europe)

15 minutes by taxi to Liverpool John Lennon Airport

45 minutes by taxi to Manchester Airport

Heysham - 2 minutes walk to nuclear power station /5 minutes to Heysham village

1 minute walk to Heysham Station (trains only once/twice a day and aren't matched to ferry times)

15 minutes in taxi to Morecombe

20 minutes in taxi to Lancaster

2 hour taxi ride to nearest international airport

 

Heysham it has already been stated is a freight port. In this matter we should loose site of that fact. The travelling public (in the main) want to go to Liverpool (by fast craft or conventional ferry)

[Albert Tatlock]

For the 8:45 IoM/Heysham + 14:15 Heysham/IoM sailings the train is convenient with good connections to/from Lancaster - I use this for a return service about every month during the winter; if you are over 60 with railcard (or have a student railcard) then the combined boat/train package is good value for a single traveller as compared to flying or taking a car. The night crossings require an expensive taxi journey, not too bad if you can share but very expensive for one.

I gave up booking the much more convenient Liverpool crosssings as their reliability was useless.

If you work 9 till 5 it's not so convenient at all without having to take time off, so sometimes there is little opportunity for some to otherwise avoid a stupid o'clock crossing. As for rail links to and from Lancaster, that depends where you are travelling to and from of course. You try and plan a similar journey to get the 02:15am ferry as a foot passenger from somewhere as simple as Manchester and work out how long it actually takes you (in terms of last train times as well), the additional costs, and the amount of hanging around you have to do just to get back here. Work out what you can do landing as a foot passenger in Heysham at Midnight - you're generally stuffed. And yes it is simpler to get the plane, but look into the costs of booking fairly short notice flights trying to fit return journeys in around work committments.

 

Catching a ferry like the Lady of Mann/Seacat leaving Liverpool on a Friday teatime used to shave hours off my travel time, and get me back here for a sensible time mainly because Liverpool is full of public transport links - the ferry left at a sensible time, and there are lots of trains. Heysham isn't like that at all.

["V"]

In the dark days I mentioned in my last post when there was no Liverpool service I tried to use Heysham to get to Liverpool on a Friday night/Saturday morning.

I booked a "through train ticket" - Lancaster to Liverpool and left with timetable in hand.

Boat reached Heysham on time, fast taxi to Lancaster to get last train (00.05 I think) south from Lancaster. Told to change a Wigan.

Waited for over an hour a Wigan only to be told that the last train to Liverpool had been canx and the next train was at 0630 !!!

A taxi to Liverpool was going to cost £50 !! Luckily there were a few of us in the same predicament so we shared. With all the waiting etc I eventually got to Liverpool at 5.30 some 10 hours after boarding the King Orry.

Not a good experience !!

 

However one suspects the IOMSP will never carry out one of their famous customer surveys with the simple question- "Where would you prefer to sail to Heysham or Liverpool ?" They wouldn't like the answer!!!

[Lost Login]

However one suspects the IOMSP will never carry out one of their famous customer surveys with the simple question- "Where would you prefer to sail to Heysham or Liverpool ?" They wouldn't like the answer!!!

I think they know the answer otherwise the rest of the year their main passenger point would not be Liverpool. They probably would also not be trying to Sail to Birkenhead now at weekends if that was not the case. I sure it would have been more convenient to sail solely to Heysham rather than to Birkenhead.

 

I have some sympathy with the Steam Packet as I guess that what the public want they can not deliver. I am not talking about better service on the boats, cock ups over timetables at TT etc etc but that in the main it appears to be fast craft most of the year to Liverpool but with an all weather boat as back up for the winter. I can not see anyway they are going to purchase a vessel just to do 30 or so trips a year to cover the winter period. Equally I can not see the public accepting a new "slow" all year round boat to Liverpool in place of the fast craft. The majority of passengers use the boats in the summer and I am sure would be in up in arms if we went back to 4hr crossings to Liverpool.

 

There is an impasse their which might be solved to an extent if the Ben weekend sailings to Birkenhead arrived a bit earlier and left later so that you could have almost a full day their as used to happen. However that again may be out of their hands as presumably their may be time slots and restictions on the berth they are using.

 

All in all I probably accept for the present the status quo, maybe I should not but it is better than the service at times in the past. I do though wish the Steam Packet would break its wall of silence to explain fully why they have taken the action they have and what aternatives are available and if not why not. Yes I want a better more fequent service etc but I also realise it may not be practical or viable, but the wall of silence does help.

 

Finally for all those that slag of Mark Woodward, he is probably the wrong target, he like the majority of us is only doing a job, all be it a well paid and fairly high profile one. However again I am guessing but I would guess his hands are tied by McQuarrie etc. Do we really think he has the power to purchase and order a new boat, change the time tables. He is there to do the best with the remit that he has been given by the board and shareholders. Step outside that and I would expect that he would be ickin up his T21.

[rallybug]

I have some sympathy with the Steam Packet as I guess that what the public want they can not deliver. I am not talking about better service on the boats, cock ups over timetables at TT etc etc but that in the main it appears to be fast craft most of the year to Liverpool but with an all weather boat as back up for the winter. I can not see anyway they are going to purchase a vessel just to do 30 or so trips a year to cover the winter period. Equally I can not see the public accepting a new "slow" all year round boat to Liverpool in place of the fast craft. The majority of passengers use the boats in the summer and I am sure would be in up in arms if we went back to 4hr crossings to Liverpool.

 

If we take this years timetable as a basis, the fast craft stopped on November 9th, and will re-start on 1st March, which is 32 weekend days.

 

If you have one return trip a day on Saturdays and Sundays, that'll be 64 trips.

If you have two return trips a day on Saturdays and Sundays, that'll be 128 trips.

["V"]

The IOMSP don't need to buy an all weather vessel, they could probably charter one for the winter.

They charter vessels for TT week - but then they always do to maximise capacity and profit.

When the "Lady" was on standby she was used in the winter, TT and a couple of times as backup/replacement. She was also chartered to the Azores (I think?) She was left in dock for months on end.

["V"]

*wasn't left in dock for months on end

 

 

["V"]

Just spotted this on Manx Radio.

 

Steam Packet under fire

23/11/2007 09:23:21

 

A politician who's been a vocal critic of the Steam Packet says he's absolutely astonished to hear about next year's winter schedule, which again contains no day trips.

North Douglas MHK Bill Henderson is calling for the Packet's Chief Executive, Mark Woodward, to be hauled up in front of the Council of Ministers and made accountable for his actions.

The decision to stop day trips to Liverpool this winter has caused anger and dismay among a lot of people here, who've made their feelings clear in online forums, petitions and user groups.

Mr Henderson says the 2008 schedule is a slap in the face to the Manx public:

 

Could be the politicians are at least begining to work out what the public want!!

[Tugger]

Bill's a good guy, I think. A mate of mine who was ex-civil service says he's one of the hardest working MHKs in the house.

[Lost Login]

If we take this years timetable as a basis, the fast craft stopped on November 9th, and will re-start on 1st March, which is 32 weekend days.

 

If you have one return trip a day on Saturdays and Sundays, that'll be 64 trips.

If you have two return trips a day on Saturdays and Sundays, that'll be 128 trips.

 

I was treating a return sailing as one trip, not treating the outward and return legs seperately.

 

I doubt if two retuns are on the cards as allowing for 4hrs each way and an hour turn round either end I do not think the timings would be particulary convenient

[Lost Login]

The IOMSP don't need to buy an all weather vessel, they could probably charter one for the winter.

They charter vessels for TT week - but then they always do to maximise capacity and profit.

When the "Lady" was on standby she was used in the winter, TT and a couple of times as backup/replacement. She was also chartered to the Azores (I think?) She was left in dock for months on end.

 

They chartered Cargo vessels for TT week not passenger vessels. Was that not the problem with TT week and the changed bookings that they banked on being able to charter a boat capable of handling mainly passengers and bikes on the Liverpool run and for whatever reason it fell through.

[AlexMcC]

Two Big problems, small suitable ships are hard to come by unless you head to greece. Second, as to not running a better timed service to Liverpool using the Ben all winter, she just ins't fast enough to make two round trips there......

["V"]

They chartered Emerarde France Sea Cat and the Caledonia something - both passenger carrying vessels.

I think the problem with TT traffic was the loss of Sea Expess

[Lost Login]

They chartered Emerarde France Sea Cat and the Caledonia something - both passenger carrying vessels.

I think the problem with TT traffic was the loss of Sea Expess

Yes but they were not the type of boats that could run a winter service to Liverpool

[Lost Login]

Two Big problems, small suitable ships are hard to come by unless you head to greece. Second, as to not running a better timed service to Liverpool using the Ben all winter, she just ins't fast enough to make two round trips there......

 

Ultimately this all falls down to Money, and the only way what people appear to want is going to happen is if somebpdy stumps up tens of millions in hard cash. First to buy a second boat and then to operate it at a loss over the winter. MacQuarrie are very unlikely to do so, which leaves us with the Govt.

 

Whether or not there is a will, I am not sure I want my taxes to go that way to assist people who want a day trip to Liverpool and can not afford to fly. It may seem callous but unfortunately their are some draw backs with living on an Island. If we were going to go down the subsidy routes then provide some subsidised flights to Liverpool. It would probably prove to be a lot cheaper

 

Moaning at the SP has a long history but I think they do what they do reasonably OK but at a price. Get the freight back and forth all year and provide a decent summer passenger car ferry service. Travel by boat has generally been taken over by air travel these days and if anything is to be done it should be looked at as a whole. If the Govt got rid of air passeger tax etc on flights then the cheapest flights would not be far off the boats. If we got that sorted and could do a return to Liverpool John Lennon at say £40.00 all in over the winter would we really need a winter boat to Liverpool