Steam Packet - Oft Petition

[bluemonday]

indicate?

[manshimajin]

And a letter from the DoT:

 

 

Amadeus congratulations on the way you organised a petition - as a relative newcomer to the forum it is very interesting to see a way of using it to support a major concern/issue.

 

Do you know if the meeting referred to in the DOT letter has taken place?

[Amadeus]

What a timely thread resurrection there

 

Sent a letter requesting an update roughly two weeks ago. Got a reply that Nick Black (head of OFT) is on holiday until the 7th and will get back after that, so a reply is due any day now...

[Amadeus]

...and here it is, arrived today. November 07 it was - how time flies....

 

 

So, it appears the OFT is now taking part in meetings with the DoT and Packet on a regular basis, which sounds like a good thing IMO. From now on, if you have any complaints or comments, you know where to send them

 

Anyone know when that select committee will be done doing what they're doing?

 

Any comments/suggestions for a reply ?

[triskelion]

Excellent, if rather bellated, reply. Encouraging that they will be sitting in on the meetings. I would congratulate them for that in the reply. Also might be worthwhile enquiring as to whether transcripts/recordings of these meetings would be available?

 

The Select Committee last met 3rd March, not sure when it will last till

[triskelion]

Reading through the March 3rd transcript, capt. brew gives an interesting explantion of the user agreement, including:

 

"With respect to the minimum service level, under the 2004 extension, the following minimum service

130 levels are required: inbound freight capacity, 7,800 lane metres per week; service to north-west UK ports,

936 return sailings per year; summer-period frequency to the Liverpool port range, a daily service from

April to the third week in October; services to the east coast of Ireland, 63 return sailings per year. The

Company’s published schedule exceeds all of the above requirements"

[monasqueen]

The Company’s published schedule exceeds all of the above requirements"

 

What's in the timetable doesn't necessarily run. Remember, they cancelled the Irish holiday week sailings the other year.

[triskelion]

What I meant to add is that in his blog Woodward said the Irish routes were a case of 'use it or lose it,' yet they are evidently a requirement of the user agreement.

 

Whether or not the contents of the timetable are 100% accurately run, they do, in fairness provide more than the most basic requirements.

[manshimajin]

What I meant to add is that in his blog Woodward said the Irish routes were a case of 'use it or lose it,' yet they are evidently a requirement of the user agreement.

 

Whether or not the contents of the timetable are 100% accurately run, they do, in fairness provide more than the most basic requirements.

 

Thanks for adding the extract from the Woodard blog - I remember reading that with vested interest as I have to use those links. It is very interesting to read that the service is actually part of the User Agreement. Does anyone know if the User Agreement is a publically available document? I searched the web but could not find the full document there.

 

This is an excellent example of improving public information and motivating action from the public service through effective use of modern communication technology. Well done Amadeus.

[Amadeus]

Does anyone know if the User Agreement is a publically available document? I searched the web but could not find the full document there.

A copy of the original "Victoria Pier Linkspan Siting Licence Agreement" and the new bits, or "Supplemental Agreements", can be obtained from Tynwald Library - a binder full of stuff and not easy reading. The new one wasn't publicly available until earlier last year, which I didn't know at the time and was firmly put into place over when the petition made headlines. Good to know it is public now, though (it wasn't for quite some time citing 'commercial confidentiality', but that was successfully challenged in Tynwald)

 

Tynwald discussion from 2004 about the "Supplemental Agreements" here in PDF (from page 453).

 

I guess now we'll have to wait for the Select Committee to finish doing their job and then see what the findings are.

 

The "use it or lose it" comment is going to stick in people's minds for a long time I think. As mentioned before, I think it's an understandable thing to say if you run a normal commercial operation, but not entirely appropriate when you call yourself the "Island's Lifeline" all the time.

[manxman8180]

Was the "use it or lose it" phrase perhaps attached to the additional sailings timtabled for this year?

 

I think there are nearly 100 return trips scheduled to Ireland in the timetable, far exceeding those required as per Triskellion's post above.

 

So rather than referring to the route itself, it is the extra capacity offered which would be under threat if it wasn't utilised. Now I think personally, they should give it a few years, but if it genuinely isn't getting used enough, should they continue to offer sailings in excess of the agreement?

 

And being the Islands 'Lifeline' would hardly be affected if they binned Ireland altogether now would it.

[jimbms]

Was the "use it or lose it" phrase perhaps attached to the additional sailings timtabled for this year?

 

I think there are nearly 100 return trips scheduled to Ireland in the timetable, far exceeding those required as per Triskellion's post above.

 

So rather than referring to the route itself, it is the extra capacity offered which would be under threat if it wasn't utilised. Now I think personally, they should give it a few years, but if it genuinely isn't getting used enough, should they continue to offer sailings in excess of the agreement?

 

And being the Islands 'Lifeline' would hardly be affected if they binned Ireland altogether now would it.

Sod that! bin the seadog instead, I would rather have fresh guinness daily than a commuter boat for scouse shoplifters.

[Jimcalagon]

Was the "use it or lose it" phrase perhaps attached to the additional sailings timtabled for this year?

 

I think there are nearly 100 return trips scheduled to Ireland in the timetable, far exceeding those required as per Triskellion's post above.

 

So rather than referring to the route itself, it is the extra capacity offered which would be under threat if it wasn't utilised. Now I think personally, they should give it a few years, but if it genuinely isn't getting used enough, should they continue to offer sailings in excess of the agreement?

 

And being the Islands 'Lifeline' would hardly be affected if they binned Ireland altogether now would it.

Sod that! bin the seadog instead, I would rather have fresh guinness daily than a commuter boat for scouse shoplifters.

 

 

Why would a scouser come over here to shoplift? - there's fuck all in the shops.

[manshimajin]

Tynwald discussion from 2004 about the "Supplemental Agreements" here in PDF (from page 453).

 

I guess now we'll have to wait for the Select Committee to finish doing their job and then see what the findings are.

 

The "use it or lose it" comment is going to stick in people's minds for a long time I think. As mentioned before, I think it's an understandable thing to say if you run a normal commercial operation, but not entirely appropriate when you call yourself the "Island's Lifeline" all the time.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

On the 'use it or lose it' I have not seen any advertisements in the ROI to date this year for the Isle of Man. Could have missed them so don't take it for gospel that they are not out there. If they haven't been run though it's getting late for people to be making holiday plans.

 

I did put two suggestions to the IOMSPC that could help with maintaining and growing the Irish service:

1. Given we now have excellent road links between the Republic and the North it might be an idea to concentrate on one port. Travelling to Belfast from my place in Cork is almost as quick as getting to the docks in Dublin due to the horrendous traffic in the latter city. Concentrating on one port should allow higher load factors and sailings more days per week. It might even be possible to exend the sailing season?
   
2. The Manx Tourist Office and the IOMSPC might also consider an Irish Sea 'Landbridge' arrangements that would tap into both UK and continental tourists by having a special combined fare for UK-IoM-Ireland-UK (or vice versa). As the IOMSPC has Landbridge arrangements with Norfolk Line to Europe they might be able to extend this relationship. The numerous Dutch, German, French and Italian tourists who come to Ireland look for the 'Celtic' experience and the scenery - the island should be able to tap into that too with competitive ferry arrangements.
   

Not heard back of course - even to say I'm an eediot.

 

Do these ideas make any sense to other forum members?

[triskelion]

I think they are, at the very least, interesting ideas. I don't know what Belfast/Dublin rail links are like, but the possibility of a boat/rail ticket seems a reasonable one. According to the Irish Rail website the cost of a Dublin/Belfast ticket is about £29, but this is subject to the exchange rate obviously. Maybe even a Douglas-Belfast-Dublin route would work.

 

The only problem with focusing on one port is that people will not interpret it as a rationalisation of sailings; but as 'yet another' cut back in services. Based on what you have said about traffic in Dublin, the most practical port would be Belfast in terms of onward journeys, but then the tourists wanting to go to Dublin would have to be sold on a rail/coach link.

 

So far as your second point goes, I really like the idea, but a likely current pitfall is the lack of international awareness as regards the IoM as a nation with Celtic Heritage. A possible way to boost that (apart from marketing campaigns) might be some kind of cooperative pass between Irish Sea ferry operators - Some kind of 'Celtic Experience Ticket' or something.

 

EDIT: Okay, just looked up last years harbour figures, 22,266 passengers went to Belfast, and 13,527 to Dublin.