Steam Packet - Oft Petition

[girl89]

Is there a letter I can send supporting the IOMSPC for their decision. Why is it so called Manx people can not do their shopping using local shops? While so called do gooders sail off the island and import so called bargains the Manx economy goes down the pan. Shops in town centres such as Ramsey, Peel and Port St.Mary are becoming a shopping wasteland while Liverpool and Manchester profit from our stupidity. For every pound spent on the island the island economy makes use of it seven times spend it off the island and we get sod all.

 

Lets hope the airlines put up the air fares soon

 

It's not JUST about people going shopping for day trips.... Coming home from University, I've resorted to flying home at Xmas now instead of getting a boat. Anyway, the shops are sh*t in the Isle of Man, we need a Primark on the island!

 

And if you want a letter to support the IOMSPC, I'm sure you're capable of writing your own

[Amadeus]

Oh, look - the steam packet likes me so much, they just sent me a big box of fireworks by courier! How nice!

 

Wonder why they attached an old alarm clock and loads of wires to it, though..

 

Is there a letter I can send supporting the IOMSPC for their decision. Why is it so called Manx people can not do their shopping using local shops? While so called do gooders sail off the island and import so called bargains the Manx economy goes down the pan. Shops in town centres such as Ramsey, Peel and Port St.Mary are becoming a shopping wasteland while Liverpool and Manchester profit from our stupidity. For every pound spent on the island the island economy makes use of it seven times spend it off the island and we get sod all.

 

Lets hope the airlines put up the air fares soon

I see what you mean, but don't forget that this thing swings the other way as well - tourism (as far as it still exists) isn't helped with fewer sailings or inconsistent service, meaning reduced service also leads to fewer people coming here and spending money. Make it cheaper and easier to get here and the economy will benefit - simple.

 

As for shopping and buy local, I think you have to take into account the fact that people will always go off-island to shop, especially around christmas. Ramsey, Douglas, etc, don't have a Trafford Center and will never be able to compete - neither will small towns in the UK, which I guess are affected by the attraction of big shopping centers as well - and don't forget that in the internet age a lot of stuff is simply ordered online - no need to use the boat or local shops as a consumer. People don't do this because they don't like local shops, but because they like choice and want maximum value for their money - both not crimes. Where shops can win is on service - I've bought stuff like my dslr and camcorder at Morrisons Photo - not because it's the cheapest or biggest shop around, but because the service was right, the peeps there know their stuff and I've got somewhere to go when things go wrong. Had a look at a well known hight street chain before that and they were useless and the service wasn't what I expected when spending four figure sums - although they were a little cheaper, it still didn't cut it.

[He is over the last]

Oh, look - the steam packet likes me so much, they just sent me a big box of fireworks by courier! How nice!

 

Wonder why they attached an old alarm clock and loads of wires to it, though..

 

Is there a letter I can send supporting the IOMSPC for their decision. Why is it so called Manx people can not do their shopping using local shops? While so called do gooders sail off the island and import so called bargains the Manx economy goes down the pan. Shops in town centres such as Ramsey, Peel and Port St.Mary are becoming a shopping wasteland while Liverpool and Manchester profit from our stupidity. For every pound spent on the island the island economy makes use of it seven times spend it off the island and we get sod all.

 

Lets hope the airlines put up the air fares soon

I see what you mean, but don't forget that this thing swings the other way as well - tourism (as far as it still exists) isn't helped with fewer sailings or inconsistent service, meaning reduced service also leads to fewer people coming here and spending money. Make it cheaper and easier to get here and the economy will benefit - simple.

 

As for shopping and buy local, I think you have to take into account the fact that people will always go off-island to shop, especially around christmas. Ramsey, Douglas, etc, don't have a Trafford Center and will never be able to compete - neither will small towns in the UK, which I guess are affected by the attraction of big shopping centers as well - and don't forget that in the internet age a lot of stuff is simply ordered online - no need to use the boat or local shops as a consumer. People don't do this because they don't like local shops, but because they like choice and want maximum value for their money - both not crimes. Where shops can win is on service - I've bought stuff like my dslr and camcorder at Morrisons Photo - not because it's the cheapest or biggest shop around, but because the service was right, the peeps there know their stuff and I've got somewhere to go when things go wrong. Had a look at a well known hight street chain before that and they were useless and the service wasn't what I expected when spending four figure sums - although they were a little cheaper, it still didn't cut it.

 

With all due respect to your good self and other mods, I really do feel that shopping should be on a separate thread. So thus I shall open a thread on the lines of do you shop local.

 

Choo Choo

 

He is over the last

[Albert Tatlock]

My analysis of the first 958 signatories and comments on the petition clearly shows the '$64 smack effect' i.e. people venting their anger in one go over a range of issues:

 

From 958 signatories there were 290 with comments: 44 comments are unspecific, though 246 comments refer to:

 

Inconvenience: 36.99% of 246 comments (91 comments)

Poor Management/Service: 51.63% of 246 comments

Inference for Government intervention: 20.73% of 246 comments

Impact on the environment: 0.41% of 246 comments (1 comment)

Difficulty getting to sporting events: 7.32% of 246 comments

Difficulty getting to shops: 4.88% of 246 comments

Reflecting price and effect on price (e.g. extra driving travel, forced to fly etc.): 20.73% of 246 comments

 

All the above percentages do not add up to 100% because of multiple topic comments

 

Of course, just because 668 people (70% of signatories) have made no comment, does not mean they do not have specific points to raise, though must be assumed to agree with the wording of the petition (simply on the basis that they have signed it). I would also consider that 'Difficulty getting to sporting events' and 'Difficulty getting to shops' could be rolled into general 'Inconvenience' (making 'Inconvenience' a much higher percentage).

 

A closer look and roll-up of the figures would suggest to me, (though 'Inconvenience' and 'Poor Management/Service' are likely to be the same to many people - actually representing around 70% of all comments) that the main issues are actually:

 

Inconvenience: 50%

Poor Management/Service: 50%

Inference for Government intervention: 20%

Price: 20%

 

I think 246 meaningful comments out of 958 signatories is statistically significant - and that the above percentage breakdowns probably represent a realistic overview of peoples' points of view.

 

The problem now is: how to tackle it? What are we expecting people to do on the basis of these results, and not let people in Government see this as a general moan, without a specific plan of action to do something about it? IMO, the petition clearly shows that someone should tackle: 1. The inconvenience of the schedule 2. the creation of a specific omsbudsman (perhaps within the OFT) so people know where to direct their grievance, and that such grivances will be actioned - with the role of the omsbudsman both advertised and publicised - perhaps put on ticketing.

 

That's my take on it anyway. I would be interested in what others are understanding from it.

[Amadeus]

1000+ now

 

That's my take on it anyway. I would be interested in what others are understanding from it.

My understanding is that you need to get out more

 

Interesting, though - it seems as if a lot of comments and opinions were around for a while and all now burst out at once.

[Albert Tatlock]

1000+ now

 

That's my take on it anyway. I would be interested in what others are understanding from it.

My understanding is that you need to get out more

I'm only allowed out on Thursday afternoons now. Me and Norman are virtually prisioners down here.

[johnsdad]

Very good post.

I agree that having now got over 1,000 signatures on the petition there needs to be some direction.

(Interesting that the IOMSP are to make a statement)

 

There is no point complaining to IOMSP - as a monoply they can simply say "take it or leave it"

[keyboarder]

It might as well be directed to the virtual dustbin then. I don't think anything's changed. People have been moaning about the SPC for as long as I can remember.

[Albert Tatlock]

It might as well be directed to the virtual dustbin then. I don't think anything's changed. People have been moaning about the SPC for as long as I can remember.

You can't say that, because the petition (based on the first 958 signatures) highlights 668 signatories clearly reflecting a straight sign up to: 'our strong disapproval and disappointment about the changes to the Steam Packet Company's winter time table and service in general.'; 'inconvenience'; 'disappointed about the performance of the "Island's Lifeline" in recent times'; 'calling on the Office of Fair Trading and the Government of the Isle of Man to ensure that improved service and reliability, as well as 'better value for money is achieved in future.'.

 

The remaining signatories with comments are simply highlighting specific issues around each of these areas, and in effect all 958 (at the time of my analysis) have signed up to the wording of the petition. I would say that the petition might not be very clear in its wording, but however, the signatories clearly expect some action to be taken on those specific areas outlined in the petition.

 

This infers action by the Minister in charge of the OFT, and/or the OFT themselves as well as the Steam Packet. My analysis shows only what people seem to be most concerned with - and perhaps suggests a 'political route' to help solve some of this:

 

1. In the first instance (with a remit of all signatories) someone (i.e. from the government/OFT) needs to deal with/negotiate the time-tabling issues on our behalf.

2. Someone (i.e. from the government/OFT) need to set up a method by which people can get their views heard and dealt with i.e. this petition versus the OFT 'no complaints received' press release - clearly shows that this is not the case at present and that petitioners clearly want this formally addressed. In fact the OFT are perfectly capable of addressing these areas - all that seems to have happened is a gross failure of government/people communications - and it is the method of communication that needs formally addressing

3. Once government/people communication is set up/repaired, that government/OFT office need to deal with the remaining issues - representing and voicing public concerns with those concerned.

 

Any failure to deal with or acknowledge this petition, clearly becomes the responsibility of the Minister in charge of the OFT - IMO.

[Lost Login]

There is a method which I think is by writing to the OFT if that is the right medium. the OFT can only say there have been no complaints to them if there have been none. The petition is simply that it is a petition. If people really what to compain then they need to get off their backsides and write a formal letter of complaint to the OFT.

 

And I think that they really need to be specific letters of complaint as just a general complaint about inconveienince, price and management/service is not going to get anybody anywhere.

 

I have read the petition though not as in depth as yourself and I wonder if much of the comment especilaly in connection with regard to service relates to the TT period which was a monumental cock up and they need a good kicking for.

 

With regard to inconvenience I think in the winter there is always going to be a trade off with reliability. The only way there could be a day return to Liverpool in the Winter with a conventional boat is either if it hung around all day or it did two returns but presumably this would mean a late departure and presumably loads of freight etc been left at Heysham for a couple of days.

 

We all know the obvious answer which is a second boat to serve the Liverppol route in the winter. Either weekend only or full time. However who is going to pay for it

 

And finally normal disclaimer neither my family etc etc work etc for the Steam Packet

2. Someone (i.e. from the government/OFT) need to set up a method by which people can get their views heard and dealt with i.e. this petition versus the OFT 'no complaints received' press release - clearly shows that this is not the case at present and that petitioners clearly want this formally addressed. In fact the OFT are perfectly capable of addressing these areas - all that seems to have happened is a gross failure of government/people communications - and it is the method of communication that needs formally addressing

[johnsdad]

Well said Albert, I agree with your comments. However in talking to my MHK I believe there are a couple of further underlying problems in respect of the IOMSP/GOvt relationship.

 

The User Agreement is all one way. The Govt grants the right to use the linkspan subject to certain agreed levels of service etc. If these levels of service etc are not reached/maintained the sanction is the termination of the agreement. There are no financial penalties or such like should the IOMSP renege on the agreement or simply pull out.

As a result of this the IOMSP have a major negotiating tool, a bit like the kid in the playground - if you don't play to my rules then I'll take my ball away! In the IOMSP's case they could threaten to pull out all together if they aren't given what they want.

You can see this relationship in the way the agreement is set up..

The IOMSP say they can't invest in the route without the security of the "monoply", the govt grant the agreement, but don't insist on investment until 2012.

At the time the last agreement extension was signed it mentions that a replacement should be found for both the Fast Craft and Lady of Man, but rather than insist on replacement before granting the monoply our govt leaves it open.

 

We are in a situation were the Govt is afraid of "rocking the boat" they don't have a plan "B".

 

If I was in their shoes I would have serious discussions with Stena or someone similar and also look at running a National Ferry line. Then when issues come up with IOMSP they would have something to fight back with.

[Albert Tatlock]

There is a method which I think is by writing to the OFT if that is the right medium. the OFT can only say there have been no complaints to them if there have been none. The petition is simply that it is a petition. If people really what to compain then they need to get off their backsides and write a formal letter of complaint to the OFT.

 

And I think that they really need to be specific letters of complaint as just a general complaint about inconveienince, price and management/service is not going to get anybody anywhere.

Perhaps the OFT should have a form on their website? Personally, I think some info (address, complaints procedure) should go on the booking form/tickets.

I have read the petition though not as in depth as yourself and I wonder if much of the comment especilaly in connection with regard to service relates to the TT period which was a monumental cock up and they need a good kicking for.

Up to 958 signatories, there were only 3 comments relating to the TT - but none regarding signatories personally affected during TT, only comments referring to an alleged debacle.

[johnsdad]

Over 1070 signatures now.

I don't think the IOMSP statement promised on Manx Radio will be a surprize. I just had a reply from Mark Woodward (I can't post it here because they threaten legal action if published/copied) and he basically states the same as reported - DoT are happy, its an improved service !!!

[Albert Tatlock]

We are in a situation were the Govt is afraid of "rocking the boat" they don't have a plan "B".

 

If I was in their shoes I would have serious discussions with Stena or someone similar and also look at running a National Ferry line. Then when issues come up with IOMSP they would have something to fight back with.

Everyone should always have a 'Plan B'. Companies can often go bust etc. leaving people in the lurch.

 

However, I think the real answer lies in compromise (between all concerned). It's not rocket science to fix the schedules to fit in with weekend trips, it's not rocket science for a company to start listening to its customers, it's not rocket science for a small government (OFT) to set up an advertised communication link with people; and its not rocket science to realise that good business sense does not involve companies just simply reacting to adverse responses from customers. Most of this is about communication - between the company and its customers; between the government and the customers (i.e. us - with the government regulating responsibly on our behalf); and between the government and the operator.

 

The reality is that we are a small island. Not many ferry companies would want to come here for less than the SP expect to take - so changing the operator is unlikely, IMO, to change hardly anything in reality.

 

However, we are a rich small island, and IMO if that means the government have to subsidise operators to get a better service then IMO they should seriously consider doing so - given the effect of what a perceived poor service can lead to in terms of damage to the island. I don't think this is as daft as it sounds because, for example, most/all businesses and households regularly rely on the Steam Packet for goods etc. yet many hardly use it themselves - and usually fly - thus many businesses/households don't contribute to this lifeline (other than paying bottom-line goods transport costs). Perhaps one compromise, in turn for better service and better prices, might be for the government to purchase/own a new ship (or offer a grant towards one) taking into account 'fair' profit margins for the operator, whilst balancing fair prices for the customers, and a decent service that people will want to use to visit the island. In other words a mid contract renegotiation with both sides putting something on the table.

 

Until this petition, the government (OFT) thought everything was OK because there were no complaints!!! The government can't ignore this and all the issues surrounding it. Whoever, grabs this one and sorts it out once and for all will get my vote.

[johnsdad]

Another good post Albert, you hit the nail on the head.

 

MHK's in Tynwald need to understand that we expect them do sort this out or they will face the music in 4 years time