Lost Login Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I am sorry but I do not want my taxes to subsidise the operations! This is a selfish point of view but the current level of service I have no problem with. Two return trips to Hesham most days and one to Liverpool at the weekends. I can remember a much worse level of service than that. Yes I would like it to be cheaper but £30.00 return as a foot passenger to Liverpool I think is not too bad, yes I would like a more frequent service etc etc but not for a state subsisdy. If we subsidise the boat it is not the general public who will benefit but the multi nationals etc such as M & S who price over here exactlty the same as in the UK. If they get cheaper freight carriage the only thing that wil change are their costs and not their profits. You could then apply exactly the same arguments to air travel and whilst I appreciate that their is competition it is not generally on the same routes. But if the Ferry gets subsidised why should not flights also especilally since in air passenger tax they actually a considerable revenue to the government. However, we are a rich small island, and IMO if that means the government have to subsidise operators to get a better service then IMO they should seriously consider doing so - given the effect of what a perceived poor service can lead to in terms of damage to the island. I don't think this is as daft as it sounds because, for example, most/all businesses and households regularly rely on the Steam Packet for goods etc. yet many hardly use it themselves - and usually fly - thus many businesses/households don't contribute to this lifeline (other than paying bottom-line goods transport costs). Perhaps one compromise, in turn for better service and better prices, might be for the government to purchase/own a new ship (or offer a grant towards one) taking into account 'fair' profit margins for the operator, whilst balancing fair prices for the customers, and a decent service that people will want to use to visit the island. In other words a mid contract renegotiation with both sides putting something on the table. Until this petition, the government (OFT) thought everything was OK because there were no complaints!!! The government can't ignore this and all the issues surrounding it. Whoever, grabs this one and sorts it out once and for all will get my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 If we subsidise the boat it is not the general public who will benefit but the multi nationals etc such as M & S who price over here exactlty the same as in the UK. If they get cheaper freight carriage the only thing that wil change are their costs and not their profits. On the assumption of an extra ship (government owned/sponsored) - that would depend on how it is all negotiated. Negotiations could start with current operational prices and subsidies involving passengers and cars/vehicles to improve that service - then perhaps with spare capacity going to government sponsored industries such as high value manufacturing (reducing their import and export transport costs) as part of the strategic plan. I don't see why the multinationals would get all of the benefits, and if they did get some benefits, all consumers on the island would soon gain anyway (provided that any savings/reductions were audited as being passed back to the consumer). There would need to be an overall strategy and priorities and aims and objectives set. You might be happy the way things are because things suit you, but all of the factors involved in this make for a very big island economic equation. The operation of ferries on the island affects a lot of people and businesses - to much more of an extent than most actually realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Fascist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I think the press statement from spco was pathetic regarding the number of people who were not even booked on day trips when the schedule was changed. How many people book day trips more than a week ahead when they see the weather forecast ?, and what about the sailing time being so late that you miss half the day getting there and the other half of the day getting back !, and not counting 2-day trips to see family rather than just shopping or footy ? (another pathetic statement was in a letter to the Examiner, p21, sugegsting that Ramsey Queen's Pier should be used for a stop-off point for Stenna ferries between Holyhead and Dublin ....... now where's that gps gone, I don't recall us moving lately !) SSC2 noted now in Alexander dock, Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Bingo! Hence the reason they gave for the change. There is an unreliability in respect of fast craft over the winter that we all recognise. They are also in my opinion also much less comfertable in half choppy water. The Steam Packet appear to have chosen reliability over convenience for day tippers. To me that is a judgement call based on numbers but as an infrequent traveller not likely to use the day trip facility I place much more weight on reliability. I can plan around the sailing times etc I can not do owt about a cancelled boat due to bad weather with a disgruntled wife and two tired and stoppy toddlers in tow. I can think of much to moan about with regard to the Steam Packet, but the winter timetable is not one! . How many people book day trips more than a week ahead when they see the weather forecast ?, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsdad Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Interesting concept put forward by the Young Lady from IOMSP in their press release - You can only comment/protest if you were going to use the service, if not your views are not valid !!! Using that concept I don't expect any one under say 55 to complain about care for the elderly or people in good health to complain about hospital services etc. It shows very clearly that they don't have a good arguement for their actions. They would have got more respect if they said... "The terms of the User Agreement give us a de facto monoply in respect of sea travel to and from the Isle of Man. We have made changes to the timetable to cut costs and boost profit. If you don't like it fly or stay home!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Fascist FFS...get your dictionary out ans. Fascism is 'in the interest of the state' - this new ship (and it's only a suggestion) is in the interests of all the people allegedly served by the state - who are demanding a better service from a poorly-state-regulated monopoly - which will benefit from anyone who buys anything to eat here to visitors bringing money over. Without ferries you'd be paying £300 a week for your shopping - so all we are talking about is infrastructure , except we haven't the luxury/disadvantage of being able to drive a motorway here. Gosh, you really are humourless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I don't think the IOMSP statement promised on Manx Radio will be a surprize. I just had a reply from Mark Woodward (I can't post it here because they threaten legal action if published/copied) and he basically states the same as reported - DoT are happy, its an improved service !!! I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think they can actually impose those sort of restrictions unless you agree to them beforehand. Any communication they send, you're free to do with as you choose. That's not a go ahead to post it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Over 1070 signatures now.I don't think the IOMSP statement promised on Manx Radio will be a surprize. I just had a reply from Mark Woodward (I can't post it here because they threaten legal action if published/copied) and he basically states the same as reported - DoT are happy, its an improved service !!! How did you manage to get a reply from Woodward? I used the askmark feature part of his blog to question the desirability of the new winter timetable. Got an automated non-response back saying basically thanks for the e-mail will read it but have not got time to reply to all my e-mails. The standard response said he would come back to me if my e-mail was really topical to ask if he could use it on his blog (ie if it bigs the company up, I suspect) Appreciate the man is busy (dodging bullets) but surely a promise of a reply from the customer service team to my concerns would not have gone amiss. IMO the link on the blog should be re-branded from askmark to askmarkbut dontexpectananswer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsdad Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I don't know why I got the direct reply. I wrote to him about three weeks ago and go the standard reply. This time I wrote to the "Askmark" somewhat sarcastically about the Cheese & Crackers being more important than the timetable and got a direct reply from the man himself (not that it was much use) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 What the Steam Packet have not addressed in their statement is the fact that it is the change in services as a whole that has upset a lot of people - not just the scrapping of day excursion opportunities. In the last few years, they have been providing services both to Liverpool and to Heysham at weekends, and the fast craft (when running) was giving people heading south the chance of getting closer to their destination a lot sooner. This was in addition to the day trip opportunities, which the seacat's unrelaibility killed off. In the December 2004 Tynwald debate about the User Agreement, we were told that a new fast craft would be purchased "soon" to replace both the Lady of Mann and the Seacat. The Lady was sold without any sign of a replacement, and we were left with an elderly fast craft that could not cope without back-up availability. This seacat is currently being patched up, apparently for several more years' use. Where is the promised replacement? The Superseacat is not it - this, too is elderly, and it won't take much in the way of weather. They were lucky to be able to charter Emeraude France in the spring (the Seacat's sister) but had the Lady not been sold without being replaced, those charter charges would not have been necessary. The User Agreement requires a basic minimum of services, and the Steam Packet is providing at least that minimum - we cannot argue against that. What the public have been getting used to, however, is a much better level of service over the winter months (subject to the weather). To withdraw the extra service now, and call it an improvement, is an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsdad Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Well said Monasqueen. I won't be posting anymore on here. I have just received a direct email from the IOMSP stating that they know I'm "johnsdad". I find that somewhat sinister - so bye ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Well said Monasqueen. I won't be posting anymore on here. I have just received a direct email from the IOMSP stating that they know I'm "johnsdad". I find that somewhat sinister - so bye ! What? Something's going strange here - thin ice'n all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Is it too early to start the spot Vader competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallybug Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 What? Something's going strange here - thin ice'n all that... I'd imagine that they put two and two together based on johnsdad saying he'd emailed twice, and that the second one was a sarcastic email on cheese and crackers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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