Pat Ayres Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 So, what was it this twat Jehovah did exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Don't know...why don't you ask a Witness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 They will not tell me, do you think they're hiding something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Interesting - in the States it looks like they'll let children kill themselves. The 14 year-old's parents wanted him to have a transfusion - but his aunt - who has custody, and is a Jehovah's Witness - is said to have "influenced him to refuse the medical treatment". The explanation:- He believes with the transfusion he would be unclean and unworthy. Religion encouraging self hatred - a child felt that he would be so unclean and unworthy if medical science saved his life that he would rather chose death over life. And what did St. Paul say: Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For me that sums it up pretty well - all this is in the minds of those obsessed with bodily impurity - I choose life, not primative death cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 On the off chance of any of you young yank witnesses out there reading this I am the guy who tells you to FUCK OFF really loudly when you try to give me one of those crappy little flyers I realise that compared to your homeland we must look pretty short of bonkers religious cults Well were not, we have many long established belief systems in place for the spiritually short-changed We are traditionalists here and have only recently given up paganism, so I would like to invite you once again to FUCK OFF and go home Your just another bunch of work permit abusers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Interesting - in the States it looks like they'll let children kill themselves. The 14 year-old's parents wanted him to have a transfusion - but his aunt - who has custody, and is a Jehovah's Witness - is said to have "influenced him to refuse the medical treatment". The explanation:- He believes with the transfusion he would be unclean and unworthy. Religion encouraging self hatred - a child felt that he would be so unclean and unworthy if medical science saved his life that he would rather chose death over life. And what did St. Paul say: Romans 14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. ...I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably... ***DjDan: edited to place verse in context.*** For me that sums it up pretty well - all this is in the minds of those obsessed with bodily impurity - I choose life, not primative death cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 We are traditionalists here and have only recently given up paganism, so I would like to invite you once again to FUCK OFF and go home Your just another bunch of work permit abusers Who are you talking to here? Are Jehovah's Witnesses a bunch of 'comeovers' in need of work permits? - i think not. Perhaps in future, instead of yelling at them the second you see them... you should actually wait a few seconds to try and determine where they come from. Many are Manx you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Not just that, but a simple 'No thank you' doesn't make you look like a boorish prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 DjDan - In some ways I agree with you - but you do know where the JW prohibition of blood transfusions comes from don't you - Acts 15:29 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. This is clearly discussing dietry laws - now what fascinates me is that the JW's take this quotation and extend it out to all sorts of things - totally ignoring the context - you can say I'm doing the same - but I am doing it in the same way the JW's do it: taking the specific context and applying it more generally - and are you really saying this particular passage only refers to eating meat or herbs - no way - Paul's making a general point - and Christianity's acceptance of that general point is why ALL the jewish restrictions have basically fallen away not just dietry ones. What I'm doing is using the same technique as the JW, but I draw totally the opposite conclusion - the conclusion which is the mainstream Christian opinion. A conclusion I assume you agree with - you'd happily have blood transfusion - yes? No feeling of being unclean or unworthy etc if you did? In your mind it is not unclean - so following St Paul - it therefore isn't unclean - and you'll be happy to be judged on that. Religious traditions have all sorts of prohibitions based on odd bits of scripture - fancy some wine Dan. Remember the drunken parties Jesus went to and brought what the host thought was the best wine (originally water) right at the end. Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. Bet you never expected Jesus and the disciples to be getting "well drunk" at a feast hey! Is getting "well drunk" sinful? Did Jesus sin? Too often those prohibitions are contadictory - you can cherry pick the bible for ever to justify your own biases. I enjoy playing the game - the whole book is is full of them and you can basically justify what ever you want - rape, genocide, slavery, not having blood transfusions etc all from the Bible. Anyone who says they gain their morality from the bible has not read it - they cherry pick it - and often get ansty with people who cherry pick it a different way. Angels on pin heads - but people die over these differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 There is of course some confusion that eminates from the Bible. After all... it is not a perfect book (contrary to popular christian thinking). In reference to JW's favoured passage, their interpretation of that is exclusive.. and just plain wrong. It's not even close! But this is all too common with JW's. They have their own unique understanding of biblical passages, even when they have little evidence or other scriptural backing for support. In reference to me not drinking wine, well.. you may try to catch me out on the Bible alone - but that is not sufficient. The passages you refer to are not as clear as you may think. "and when men have well drunk" surely means "drunk well". drunk sufficiently. drunk enough. it doesn't mean "hey fella! you are like well drunk! of yer head eh? mate!". But as I say, the Bible is not absolutley clear - nor is it without error. We (LDS) do not rely on the Bible alone for our doctrine. We use: Bible Book of Mormon Pearl of Great Price Doctrine & Covenants and a Living Prophet of God and 12 apostles. Through these we gain a greater understanding where others lack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Over "well drunk" of course I just saw a parallel with modern parlance - but I think the interpretation that he'd quaffed a few isn't over done - you say drunk sufficiently - ok, but at a feast, with a meal to drunk sufficiently is likely to involve an enjoyment of the alcohol! From what I understand for the Mormon to drink any wine is to drink more than sufficiently. Strange to trust prophets more than Messiahs - but that's your poison I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Prophet's speak through God and Jesus Christ - so not much different there really. The Bible for example is full of these prophets - and their words are no less valued than Christ's. The New Testament is a favourite of Christian's today - with the likes of Apostle Paul. Again.. the words he spoke are just as important. You quoted his words before and as he says.. "I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus..". He speaks as directed by Christ. whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Are you sure? I thought, even for mormons, that it was God who spoke through the prophets and through Christ, even Mohammed? We then come to who should be recognised as prophets rather than scammers, nutters, egomaniacs, perverters of truth etc who find little bits of scriptures and make up others, which they then use to subordinate and subject the poor and weak, normally, whilst they benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Am I sure of what? 1 John 4:1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 re read your last post where you said that prophets speak through God And yes John 4:1 is spot on here. Problem is you and the vast majority and Jehovas Witnesses and the vast majority will never be able to agree on who is a false prophet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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