[BBC News] Parks closed to deter vandalism

[Albert Tatlock]

What is this new by-law about marches?

This one.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Again, the Government has absolutely no right to demand notice for any demonstration or march, and therefore nor does a police officer to stop it. Maybe it might be worth understanding the rationale behind this legislation but I assume it has something to do with a march getting out of hand or somehow causing a problem for the government, I doubt there is good reason. What possible good does it serve. Certainly given the state of things on the Island at the moment I think there is more reason to march or demonstrate. I also know that Westminster passed a law requiring permission to demonstrate within the locale of Parliament which is again wrong but is it simply the case that the Island is just following the UKs line?

[homarus]

Douglas Corporation tried something similar last year! when they locked all the corporation changing rooms around Douglas .

Forcing young children playing junior football to get changed in the rain and in full view of passers by on one occasion!

 

After a lot of negative press both on air and in print, they backtracked and re- opened the changing facilities.

 

I think something similar needs to happen regarding the parks .

Here we have a situation wherby a group of people whose wages are paid by the ratepayers of Douglas ,are prohibiting the use of facilities which are only in existence because of the rates paid by the people of Douglas.

As such the corporation should be looking at more constructive ways of solving these problems , rather than penalising the majority of law abiding people who wish to use them, and whose money is paying for these facilities in the first place.

The problem here is obviously people acting unlawfully on publicly owned property!, call me old fashioned, but I always thought it was the job of the police to deal with this sort of thing ?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It is but it shouldn't be and I would prefer the parks being lock-up than involving the police. I don't see what good the police can do apart from constantly moving the people on, and to where, unless they punished the kids but to say the least I think that is unproductive? Maybe the best option that would satify most people is to lock the parks after 9pm or later.

[homarus]

So someone commits a crime and it's unproductive to punish them ??

 

What's the point of a Police force then??

 

Any kid found vandalising public(or private) property should be made to repair the damage caused ,under supervision and be made to contribute to the cost ,even if it means selling their playstation ,bike or whatever!

 

Oh yea I almost forgot !, Be made to wear a bright orange boiler suit with the word 'corporation punishment' written on the back?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

What's the point of a Police force then??

 

I don't know, I don't think there is much point myself; I am a bit of a lefty in my views of the police.

 

I thought idea running through the thread was about kids causing this trouble because of their upbringing. And generally, yes, it do believe it is unproductive to punish people, doesn't really sort out the bigger problem, that of lack of respect. I am not anti-social because I know I will get into trouble with the law if I were. I don't behave anti-socially because it is would be wrong and particular acts would go against my conscience.

 

I think repairing the damage is a good idea or some way of letting them recognise other people's work they have damaged and trouble they have caused but I just it better to understand why there problem is there before punishing people.

[homarus]

A similar sort of topic ,was discussed a while back, regarding the Ramsey park !

 

I said it then and I say it now , kids are clever ! they know exactly what they can get away with in a lot of cases ,

 

Upbringing has a bit to do with it but not a lot .

Put a group together and they will be as bad as each other in a very short period of time regardless of upbringing?.

 

I.M.O.

A effective way of making young people take responsibility needs to be found ?

 

I was half joking when I mentioned confiscation of the property of any kid found to be involved in vandalism,criminal damage etc?

 

The more I think about it ,why not?

 

Any kid caught behaving illegally after establishing name and address is taken home and required to hand over any personall possessions of value ,which are then held untill they have been dealt with.

 

To be sold on to pay for damages if need be ???

[Mr Crabster]

The usual next step is to sell the land for building. Then retire.

[Lonan3]

A quick search shows that many authorities close their parks at night. I found Nottingham, Belfast, Sandwell and Ipswich on the first couple of pages that are closed very early in the evening (4:30 to 6), so there are plenty of precedents to justify the decision.

At the same time, the only people likely to be found 'trespassing' are those who didn't realise what time it was or weren't aware that the park was going to close. The youngsters, if anyone tries to catch them, will be away over the railings.

Sadly, more and more problems are being dealt with this way. Some of the public toilets that used to be open all the time are now being closed at night because youngsters congregate in/around them and cause damage.

As others have said, closing them is the easy option - catching the ones who cause the problems appears to be beyond the wit and effort of those who are paid to protect property.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Upbringing has a bit to do with it but not a lot .

Put a group together and they will be as bad as each other in a very short period of time regardless of upbringing?.

 

Well yeah, I would tend to agree about the upbringing bit but I don't know about it simply about there being groups of people and that changes how they behave. Most other kids in groups don't piss about like that. Besides if that were the case then even if you were to punish these kids it would make no difference as whenever they were in groups they would cause trouble.

 

I.M.O.

A effective way of making young people take responsibility needs to be found ?

 

After having done what damage they have done then yes I would agree.

 

Any kid caught behaving illegally after establishing name and address is taken home and required to hand over any personall possessions of value ,which are then held untill they have been dealt with.

 

Anything illegal? Partly one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of setting-up laws for this sort of thing is that these kids have had absolutely no say in what laws they and others are to live under. I think it unfair that they and anyone should simply live by the laws that have been set-up by governments voted in by people who can vote. My thinking on this makes me question just why these kids have the level of respect they do in society.

 

I do prefer more the idea of what you said about fixing the damage themselves rather than handing over their possessions. If property is so important then the state has as much right to take possessions of the kids than the kids have the right to trash public property.

[homarus]

Errr?

I don't think I said 'Anything Illegal' ,the words used were 'acting illegally'

 

To clarify --- I meant acting illegally in the context of 'vandalism ,criminal damage etc.

 

If the kid is caught damaging property and has to turn up at his/her home in the company of Mr Plod ,who then proceeds to help himself to the kids personal possessions in order to help pay for the damage caused, you can bet your bottom dollar ,that mummy ,daddy or both ?are not going to be very happy! and in all probability will have a quiet word in little johnny's shellike after Mr Plod has departed the scene??

[thesultanofsheight]

A quick search shows that many authorities close their parks at night. I found Nottingham, Belfast, Sandwell and Ipswich on the first couple of pages that are closed very early in the evening (4:30 to 6), so there are plenty of precedents to justify the decision.

 

Even so I think its very short sighted. As someone else has already mentioned there are few public loos open in town anymore, and now you won't be able to use these nice Victorian Parks either. So rather than deal with a problem in a sensible way its just easier to ban the responsible normal Douglas Ratepayers from accessing parks that they pay rates to upkeep. Derby Square has had a lot of money spent on it and now you can't use it.

 

Will they close the library just because a few chav's nick a book every now and again?

 

If they tried they could do something about these kids that did not punish the average ratepayer, but as with most things the corpy does it seems just too much effort.

[Albert Tatlock]

It is but it shouldn't be and I would prefer the parks being lock-up than involving the police. I don't see what good the police can do apart from constantly moving the people on, and to where, unless they punished the kids but to say the least I think that is unproductive? Maybe the best option that would satify most people is to lock the parks after 9pm or later.

Let's just have a curfew - we're only a few steps away from that.

[Wake Up Call]

If many of you feel so strongly about the youth problem, why don't you get out and do something about it? Try to get involved in a sport or club that appeals to you and try to encourage youngsters to learn new sports/skills. Kids are generally good and will take part in an activity if it appeals to them.

 

Alternatively, do nothing and spend valuable time just sitting infront of your keyboards whining about virtually everything. (Yes, like I am doing now!)

[Albert Tatlock]

If many of you feel so strongly about the youth problem, why don't you get out and do something about it? Try to get involved in a sport or club that appeals to you and try to encourage youngsters to learn new sports/skills. Kids are generally good and will take part in an activity if it appeals to them.

 

Alternatively, do nothing and spend valuable time just sitting infront of your keyboards whining about virtually everything. (Yes, like I am doing now!)

There are indeed some club and sporting opportunities available to kids. The problem is most of these are not available other than at weekends or are available only one or two nights a week. Current facilities are also very limited and require investment.

 

Just as adults don't crowd around pianos and sing songs in the evening anymore, kids have also evolved and require a great deal more technology and interest to keep their interest in a club facility - and not just a pack of cards and a table-tennis table. An investment of the type required will involve several million pounds and therefore need to involve government, or some well-heeled benefactor for such facilities to be made available and staffed in the major towns and villages on the island. Just as adults need pubs and clubs as entertainment, why don't people see that kids want some similar meeting places too (without the booze of course) where they can sit and talk, play computer games and drink pop and crisps or eat a value for money meal etc.?

 

Considering the millions that are spent on CCTV and fighting crime on the island etc. - it is obvious to many that instead of addressing the causes of youth problems, the government and councils continue to spend the money on the symptoms and effects i.e. 'chasing horses after the stable door has been opened' - instead of facilities that would provide both opportunities for youngsters to meet up, and which would encourage youngsters to be part of a community and stay off the streets. Government and councils continue to alienate and villify kids, whilst the the media continue to promote an 'atmosphere of fear', keeping older and elderly people from venturing out - and in the meantime the problem just grows and grows remaining unaddressed. Study after study shows that spending money investing in our kids, saves multiples of every pound invested when taking into account what they put in (or take out) of society in the future.

 

Yes of course parents have responsibilities, but people should be able to see that many of those irresponsible parents that let their kids roam the streets (many oblivious of the trouble some of them are causing), were just as much neglected by government and councils as their kids are today, and have no idea or interest in spending time or entertaining their kids - and sometimes just don't have the required skills. Add to this: land being at a premium and few places to play, parks being closed at 4pm, darkess for much of the year at 5/6pm - and it's a bleak picture for many kids who don't want to spend all their time at home, and want to meet their mates.

 

When you look at the people in charge of many councils, most are old enough to be the grandparents of these kids, so there is clearly a 'generations gap' and thus a total lack of understanding of what this is all about and how to deal with it.