Governor's Interview

[Gladys]

The Geraldine Jamieson interview on MR today was with the Governor and, topically, on the topic of Remembrance Sunday. He spoke common sense and was critical of the amount of support given to ex-servicemen; all well and good. BUT, when talking about Iraq and the public criticism, he spoke about the need to support the troops because they were there at the decision of the elected Government and that if the public wished to object the correct means was through the ballot box.

 

Well, hang on Sir, we cannot vote in UK elections, so that is not an argument that would find much sway here. Yet we could be as directly affected by such decisions as anywhere in the UK. Can IOM servicemen and women decline to participate in military action if they disagree with it without fear of court martial? I doubt it. What powers does the IOM have if it disagrees with any UK Government policy or action; we cannot participate in the democratic process in the UK and I am not aware of any process where we could effectively claim UDI on a particular issue.

 

I accept that even if we had voting rights in the UK our small numbers would make no difference in the outcome, but at least you would feel we had participated in a process which could affect us here as much as anyone in the UK.

 

Guess it is the price we pay for our domestic independence; but I also feel the Governor could have demonstrated a little more understanding of the voting position here.

[Albert Tatlock]

What powers does the IOM have if it disagrees with any UK Government policy or action; we cannot participate in the democratic process in the UK and I am not aware of any process where we could effectively claim UDI on a particular issue.

It's not the Isle of Man that sign its manx born servicemen up to the UK armed forces - it's the individual, who attests loyalty to the Queen and UK as he/she signs up.

 

There is no reason why the island couldn't object to a particular conflict, but if 1 million plus people couldn't stop the NuShite Iraq invasion, what chance would a bunch of ex-chimney sweeps, taxi drivers and window cleaners have? Besides, no one in government here knows what 'assertive' means.

[Gladys]

No, you miss my point Albert. The Gov said that the correct way to object was through the ballot box missing the fact that in that connection we are basically disenfranchised here, which then got me to thinking how could the IOM object to any policies which affect us.

 

I fully agree, as there is no conscription, all servicemen and women are volunteers and have signed up to serve Queen and country; but in external matters what sway does the IOM have? Certainly doesn't have any through the ballot box and I doubt it has any political or diplomatic influence; so we are pretty well disenfranchised despite (the IOM Govt) thinking of ourselves as 'world players'.

[Albert Tatlock]

No, you miss my point Albert. The Gov said that the correct way to object was through the ballot box missing the fact that in that connection we are basically disenfranchised here, which then got me to thinking how could the IOM object to any policies which affect us.

 

I fully agree, as there is no conscription, all servicemen and women are volunteers and have signed up to serve Queen and country; but in external matters what sway does the IOM have? Certainly doesn't have any through the ballot box and I doubt it has any political or diplomatic influence; so we are pretty well disenfranchised despite (the IOM Govt) thinking of ourselves as 'world players'.

I do understand what you mean though I was just being specific, The point is these conflicts 'do not affect us', because our servicemen are not conscripted they are volunteers. However, in 1918 conscription was extended to cover Ireland and the Isle of Man and Channel islands - so there has been a history of us being forced to do something by a government we do not elect, regardless of what we might have thought about the rights and wrongs of that conflict.

 

The UK has a lot of influence over us, especially over the finance sector - as does the OECD. The truth is we have to compromise with them all of the time over policy, as people don't want to make waves - because some of those waves could end up swamping our economy. There is no reason why the government can't make international complaints if a UK policy was to adversely affect us, but like the recent attack on UK residents with bank accounts here, we just tend to go along with most of it. The only way to remove that influence is to become truly independent - but that wouldn't stop the UK government then making it a tax avoidance type criminal offence for their people to bank here, and disenfranchise us etc. As long as such a large proportion of our GDP is related to the finance sector, the stronger that UK influence will become.

 

...and in all this, don't forget....we don't get to vote for who is governor either.

[Mr. Sausages]

She prompted the discussion by saying "many people think we shouldn't have gone to war", so presumably they were talking about the UK.

[Insomniac]

"Well, hang on Sir, we cannot vote in UK elections"

 

There was I think an election in Poland recently, whatever country it was there were loads of polling booths set up across the UK for voters to take part in the country they left behind. can the English here still vote for MPs? Maybe the Governer can and thinks we share his burden?

[Gladys]

Good point Mr S. So instead of stringing up the Gov, we should be stringing up GJ?

[Declan]

"Well, hang on Sir, we cannot vote in UK elections"

 

There was I think an election in Poland recently, whatever country it was there were loads of polling booths set up across the UK for voters to take part in the country they left behind. can the English here still vote for MPs? Maybe the Governer can and thinks we share his burden?

 

If I recall correctly, in the 1990's the Tory's came over on a registration drive. People could register to vote in their former constituency.

[Tugger]

I think you can vote in UK elections if you are a British national who was registered to vote in a UK constituency during the past 15 years

[La_Dolce_Vita]

BUT, when talking about Iraq and the public criticism, he spoke about the need to support the troops because they were there at the decision of the elected Government and that if the public wished to object the correct means was through the ballot box.

 

I would disagree that even voting might make a difference. If you didn't like the Labour party who would you vote for instead. Setting aside the fact that so many votes are wasted when electing a British Government the Tories and Liberal Democrats are not an improvement. All just as bad as the other. Britain should not have gone to war in the first place.

 

I do agree that the troops should be supported in respect of supporting the case for them to be sent home as soon as possible but not what they are there for and what they do. They chose to join the armed forces and chose to take on the responsibilities that their positions come with but they shouldn't be in those countries.

[Cronky]

Just out of interest, when we moved accross we lost our vote as the Isle of man was not on the list countries whose citizens are alllowed to vote in the UK. Interestinlgy citizens of British Dependent Territories, including Bermuda, Falkland Islands and Gibraltar are allowed to vote in the UK.

 

In any case, I would much prefer to vote here in the Isle of Man given that my future is here not in the UK.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Just out of interest, when we moved accross we lost our vote as the Isle of man was not on the list countries whose citizens are alllowed to vote in the UK. Interestinlgy citizens of British Dependent Territories, including Bermuda, Falkland Islands and Gibraltar are allowed to vote in the UK.

 

I wonder why there is a difference. It doesn't seem right that they can vote and you cannot as the Dependenct Territories have their own government.

[Chinahand]

Getting back to the Governor - I wonder if he has a defined constitutional role in providing feedback to the "Sovereign" [which is really the UK government via the Privy Council] concerning dissatisfaction with the IOM's international position. It would be sort of an inverse version of the Queen's position to be informed of policies and warn of their consequences - she has no veto, but can and I believe does warn Prime Ministers over divisive policies. Having the Governor open up a diplomatic channel to the UK if it was introducing policies that were affecting the IOM would seem to me to be legitimate.

 

There has been quite alot of work recently to get the Island's international position recognized - there was the recent joint statement, plus things like the British Irish Council where the Chief Minister is able to put a Manx point of view.

 

Over things like Sellafield there is a definite Manx position which is reiterated.

 

Over Iraq etc its an interesting one - Manx soldiers have died, so I suppose I could understand it being raised, but I'd feel it was grandstanding.

 

The IOM government has a right to demand that Manx soldiers are treated fairly and well, but I do not think it has much of a right to dictate foreign policy which does not have a significant effect on the Island itself.

 

Some could say Iraq does have a significant impact - I don't really agree. Its a UK issue which should be dealt with by the UK voters - and I'm not really impressed by the whinging about no democratic alternative - the Lib Dems have always been firmly against the war and have an ovelapping set of domestic policies. People could have changed their vote and affected the UK's international position - they didn't. The war has been polarizing, but I am not convinced that there was overwhelming political opposition to it with it been rammed through by an undemocratic government. The anti-war people have their supporters, but never converted that into political power - says alot to me.

[Tugger]

From the FCO website:

 

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagena...d=1079977578448

 

 

Q: I live overseas, how do I register to vote?

A: If you are a British citizen over 18 years of age living abroad, but you have been registered to vote in the UK within the last 15 years, you can apply to be an overseas voter (or overseas elector). If you were younger than 18 years of age when you left the UK, your parent or guardian must have been registered.

Once registered as an overseas voter, you are entitled to vote in elections to the UK and European Parliaments, but not UK local government elections or elections for the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly or the Northern Ireland Assembly.

 

For further information and to register as an overseas voter, download and complete the electoral registration form for British citizens living overseas and return it to the Electoral Registration Office covering the address where you were last registered to vote in the UK (the addresses are also available on the website).

 

If you would like to vote by post or by proxy, you can complete either the postal or proxy vote application form that forms part of the registration form.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Some could say Iraq does have a significant impact - I don't really agree. Its a UK issue which should be dealt with by the UK voters - and I'm not really impressed by the whinging about no democratic alternative - the Lib Dems have always been firmly against the war and have an ovelapping set of domestic policies. People could have changed their vote and affected the UK's international position - they didn't. The war has been polarizing, but I am not convinced that there was overwhelming political opposition to it with it been rammed through by an undemocratic government. The anti-war people have their supporters, but never converted that into political power - says alot to me.

 

But I think a lot of it has to do with the public not seeing a credible alternative. The Liberal Democrats aren't really going to be seen to be viable alternatives, especially to voters who have always been continual Tory or Labour supporters.

Do you think the Liberal Democrats are a credible alternative?

 

What do you mean by changing Britain's international position?

 

From speaking to people who I have met or getting a general feel for what people think of the war I have the opinion that there is a lot of more opposition to the war than support from it. I can think of few people who support it. You did have Respect party, which didn't do very well but is the problem more with the political system than with strength of the opposition? It is no wonder that there is so much apathy when are no breadth of scope in the political views of the top three political parties, people seem to think that by voting Labour there will some tremendous differences in policy to the Conservatives. Also the system isn't very democratic with simple plurality voting and the fundamental problem that after having voted in a government the public have no say in the policy of their government but leave it to the few to make all the decisions. The war was rammed through by a government that informed the public that there were WMD. Though a different point is that I suppose that voters are given little impression as to how foreign policy is to be carried out, it is mainly only domestic matters that are voting issues.