Roly Vs, Mec Vannin

[kite]

Isn't it some EU ruling or something? like we care what they say!

You don't have to have 4 grandparents born in the country to be of any other nationality, so screw it

[Bill Posters]

ou're just bitter because yours is small tongue.gif

 

You can see it from there?

[Ean]

Thats just the problem, i can't!

[Rog]

The real issue is not what sort of guy that Mark Kermode is, I’ve no doubt he’s a nice fellow, it’s if he’s the man for the job and judging by the past performance of Mec Vannin he patently obviously is NOT.

 

What’s worse is that by being the ‘Manx Nationalist Party ‘and NOT doing things that a Nationalist party SHOULD do, specifically getting support from the population as a whole, addressing real issues in a real way, being radical and not simpering on the sidelines, and actually getting INVOLVED, they’re taking the place of those who would.

 

Mec Vannin? Bloody Mec Vallium would be more like.

 

Take the Roly issue. Sure there was a court ban but so what? What in heavens name stopped someone from MV from printing off a few posters – even A4 size FFS and sticking them around the place thereby spilling the beans?

 

You can’t challenge the “Keys Kartell” by playing the game because it’s THEIR game and THEY set the rules. If MV REALLY want to be some use then they need to get their heads out of the clouds, come down from their ivory towers, and get down and dirty where the REAL politics are played.

[kite]

maybe you should join up and put your views on what they should be doing forward properly rog. Is dead easy to sit around complaining that other people arent doing it right.

didnt t Mec V print out the mount murray report and dish it out in town. They also put forward the groups views to various MHKs on a whole heap of issues they have considered and researched constantly, which in itself is more than most people do. They give like minded Manx people a stronger voice to be heard with, which can only be a good thing.

[Declan]

So let's get this straight. The four grandparent rule is one created by an external Multi-National governmental body to which the Isle of Man isn't a member. It doesn't apply in the Isle of Man. And only affects people who live off the Isle of Man.

 

It is not the definition of Manxness that applies or has ever applied legally on the Isle of Man. And it isn't used anywhere else in the world to define nationality or citizenship.

 

And its only effect is to discriminate against people with four Manx grandparents (4mgp).

 

And this is the rule that Manx Nationalism is using to define "true Manx"?

 

Why stop at Grandparents? What about great grandparents? Does and 8mggp-er beat a 4mgp-er?

 

Do you exclude the 4mgp-ers who marry a 3mgp-er, like the EU does as well. Or their kids?

 

If a 4mgp-er was born whilst their parents (both 4mgp-ers) lived off-Island but returned to the Island, would you exclude them? And their kids? And their grandkids?

 

If a 4mgp-er is abandoned by his parents and is brought up by wolves would you exclude him if he couldn't prove where his wolverene surrogates' grandparents came from?

 

How do the advances in fertility treatment affect all this. (Bare with me this might get complicated) If two 4mgp-ers get married and have trouble conceiving, and use a donated egg, but the doner is only a 3 mgp-er. Is the baby Manx

 

(moderators note - that's enough examples Dec)

 

I would have thought the best hope for preserving Manx Culture is to encourage as many people as possible to become involved and feel part of it, rather than try to exclude as many as you can?

[teejay]

OK anus, let’s spell it out.  First off I do not have a quartet of Grandparents.  I actually have (had)  not 4 Grandparents,  but 6. 

 

My Mother married twice, my natural father,  her husband – something probably unknown in you own family background - died in ’46 as a result of really terrible injuries he received in the last days of the war.  He was Manx and met your criteria to a tee being one of the Brew family.

 

My maternal grandparents –  Grandfather was from Ballasalla ( a Moore) and Grandmother from Ramsey ( nee King) where she was 2nd generation being born on the island to a German Jewish woman  who had married a local farmer.

 

She was therefore Jewish which is how come I’m Jewish myself.  (“Jewishness” travels down the maternal line which is something that you probably did not know being so obviously a person who is so stupid that he doesn’t even realise that there are things that he doesn’t know.)  So that puts that to rights.

 

But what have the Zionists got to do with anything unless you are a nasty mean minded worthless piece of crap with a mind and personality like the South bound end of a North bound skunk.  Maybe you would care to enlarge on that.  As it happens I am a Zionist through and through but that is immaterial to being Manx  so why raise the issue? 

 

So am I Manx?  You tell me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

A self confessed Zionist calls me anus. That is rich indeed.

 

First off you certainly aren't Manx, you have no business here.

 

At the risk of sounding patronising I strongly suspect most contributors and readers of this forum will be somewhat hazy on the concept of Zionism. Zionists make Mec Vannin seem like little old ladies at a WI tea party. Zionism denies the very right of Palestinians to exist and plumbs the same depths as the Nazis in 30s Germany.

 

I'll be honest Rog I've always considered you to be a nasty piece of work but your revelation of being an internet Zionist tells me you are scum. All you have is a twisted mind sittng safely at a computer in England, you don't even have the guts to move to Israel and put your outlook to the test. Then that may put you at physical risk and that would never do for a low life like you would it?

[ans]

Zionists make Mec Vannin seem like little old ladies at a WI tea party. 

 

Most things make them seem like that. Kind of ironic really, as I suspect there's more real teeth at the WI tea party.

[teejay]

But what have the Zionists got to do with anything unless you are a nasty mean minded worthless piece of crap with a mind and personality like the South bound end of a North bound skunk.  Maybe you would care to enlarge on that.  As it happens I am a Zionist through and through but that is immaterial to being Manx  so why raise the issue? 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here's another for you scum

 

Zionism is not a part of the Jewish religion, but rather is parasitic upon it. Most Zionists are Jews, but not all Jews are Zionists. To condemn Zionism as immoral (racist, vicious and depraved) is not to condemn Judaism

[Rog]

But what have the Zionists got to do with anything unless you are a nasty mean minded worthless piece of crap with a mind and personality like the South bound end of a North bound skunk.  Maybe you would care to enlarge on that.  As it happens I am a Zionist through and through but that is immaterial to being Manx  so why raise the issue? 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here's another for you scum

 

Zionism is not a part of the Jewish religion, but rather is parasitic upon it. Most Zionists are Jews, but not all Jews are Zionists. To condemn Zionism as immoral (racist, vicious and depraved) is not to condemn Judaism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So I’m not going to get involved in slagging you off as a person, I’ve made my feelings very clear and only in reply to your horrendously insulting personal attack that culminated in being outlandishly rude to me.

 

That having been said with my own family background I would just remind you that I DO meet the 4 Grandparents rule that you propose and HAVE explained why my surname isn’t a ‘usual’ Manx one though I really don’t know why I bothered.

 

But here’s a paradox emerging. How can I have Manx grandparents if for them to be Manx THEY must have also had Manx Grandparents as well and their Grandparents must have had the same qualifications? Sort of

 

Greater fleas have lesser fleas

Upon their backs to bite 'em

And lesser fleas have smaller fleas

And so on – AD INFINITUM!

 

The only way that a person could therefore actually be Manx under such conditions would be if life had emerged on the Island independently from the rest of the world, evolved along a unique and separate evolutionary trail, and gone in for incest in a very big way indeed! (Wait a moment, you mentioned that YOU were Manx didn’t you? Hey! Maybe that’s because ----- no, better leave it!

 

Get real.

 

But let’s move on.

 

Once again you show ignorance by failing to understand what Zionism is all about. Put simply Zionism is the politics of the re-establishment of the Jewish state in Israel.

 

To then continue and make the utterly ridiculous – and totally wrong – statement that “Zionism denies the very right of Palestinians to exist” simply confirms your lack of understanding and especially knowledge on the subject whilst to then continue with “---plumbs the same depths as the Nazis in 30s Germany.” is totally wrong, highly offensive and utterly stupid.

 

It is very clear that certainly in regards to matter Israeli and Jewish your know nothing yet preach bile.

 

You then continue to write how you don’t like me and that I am in your words “scum” – so what? Everybody is entitled to their opinions and I care not in the least. What does amuse me and one or two others who visit this forum from time to time is where you write --- “you don't even have the guts to move to Israel and put your outlook to the test. Then that may put you at physical risk and that would never do for a low life like you would it?”.

 

You then really crack me up with this bit ---

 

“Here's another for you scum

Zionism is not a part of the Jewish religion, but rather is parasitic upon it. Most Zionists are Jews, but not all Jews are Zionists. To condemn Zionism as immoral (racist, vicious and depraved) is not to condemn Judaism”

 

Tell me that you’re just a troll.

 

You've just GOT to be!

 

Are you REALLY telling an old Yiddisher zaider like me about such matters? In the words of one contributor to the old Manx forum and at first to this one, someone who although I didn’t always see eye to eye with but I did respect, “pfft”..

 

Teejay – it’s ended. You have just joined my ‘ignore’ list. It’s a short one, but it’s there.

[ans]

The only way that a person could therefore actually be Manx under such conditions would be if life had emerged on the Island independently from the rest of the world, evolved along a unique and separate evolutionary trail, and gone in for incest in a very big way indeed!

 

Sounds like you've hit the nail on the head there.

[manxman8180]

I think Declan summed it up well for me.

 

This 'rule' that has been muted to determine Manx nationality is purely a tool of the EU to establish (or deny) working rights within the member states.

 

It is not something which should be used by a Nationalist party or narrow minded racist biggots within a community to segregate others.

 

Let's face it, if I were to preach that someone of a different colour skin couldn't possible be Manx, I would, quite rightly, be castigated and quite probably locked up.

 

Rog makes an easy target for such people as he is out spoken and at times (!) controversial. At times I have disagreed with him and crossed swords on topics, but he has as much right to post here as you or I. And if he, or anyone else, sees themselves as Manx, then that's good enough for me.

[simon]

I think Declan summed it up well for me.

 

This 'rule' that has been muted to determine Manx nationality is purely a tool of the EU to establish (or deny) working rights within the member states.

Exactly - and just to say that again in a slightly different way:

 

The condition isn't designed to assess Manxness. The condition is designed to assess whether somebody has the right to be considered as a full European citizen.

 

AFAIK the point is that if you have (even) one grandparent from an EU country then you can consider yourself as being of the EU by birth.

 

You can't use that condition to prove or imply anything else.

 

The IOM or India or anywhere else might, for example, equally introduce a rule that stating that if (even) one of your grandparents was from here/there/anywhere then so are you.

 

The only way that a person could therefore actually be Manx under such conditions would be if life had emerged on the Island independently from the rest of the world

10/10 A+

[Tonto]

Tonto another Walter Mitty, claims that Manxman.com somehow wronged him. Dream on Tonto, go back to the Lone Ranger, you are just another comoever on the gravy train. You could even be a little failed Scottish lawyer; now flogging insurance.

 

I am not little - though I wish I were.

I am not and never have been a lawyer - failed, successful or otherwise.

Neither am I Scottish, though I have eaten porridge on occasion.

Nor have I ever, as you so quaintly put it - flogged insurance.

Neither do I have tickets for this gravy train you mention.

I am not a comoever - at least, I dont think I am - some kind of hairpiece?

 

I am a comeover though. oops.

 

You are clearly mixing me up with another on-going vendetta. Yet somehow you feel qualified to tell me that my 'claim' that manxman 'wronged me' is incorrect? You really need to get some polish on the old chrystal ball - it's letting you down big time. Just goes to show that none of you had or have any idea of what you were doing or the possible consequences of your actions.

 

Oh and I do have a plane ticket in the morning - and it's first class.

[monkey_magic]

Neither am I Scottish, though I have eaten porridge on occasion.

 

Have you got four grandparents who've eaten porridge too, Jock?