Peel Bay Festival

[Lost Login]

Not knocking your posts Lost Login, as I said it was just the bit about Government bowing to public pressure that caught my eye. it could have been made by anyone about any situation on the island, it just happened to have been made by your good self on this subject.

 

I appreciate. I am thinking of having a petition against petitions provided the Govt gives me a guarantee to the covers the costs off, a Mansion House in say Farmhill so I can colate and some day trips to Liverpool so I can collect some additional signaurs while across not accompanying anybody to hostpital

[Insomniac]

Ministers thive on positive publicity i guess thats why they don't like making decisions and why they move around the departments so much. If 75% of the population signed the petition Ernie would change jobs before admiting he was wrong. Not picking on him specificaly, the'd all do the same. theory should lead to expert advise which should lead to a decision. here theory leads to public consultation then department shuffles. petitions may sway a forthcoming announcement but i don't recall them changing it once made.

[oldmanxfella]

If 75% of the population signed the petition Ernie would change jobs before admiting he was wrong.

 

Who is Ernie?

[Lost Login]

Ministers thive on positive publicity i guess thats why they don't like making decisions

They do make a decisions it is just ones that an element of the population do not like. In respect of PBF the decision was to provide the requested guarantee.

 

 

If 75% of the population signed the petition Ernie would change jobs before admiting he was wrong.

 

That would not mean that Earnshaw had taken the wrong decision basedon the facts just that alot of people wanted the government to support the PBF wether or not the business case stod up. I possibly could produce a petition demanding the end to all taxation on the Isle of Man on anybody earning less than say £100,000. This might get huge support. Th e Minister though wouldbe right to reject as it might be hat "the people" want but the IoM could not afford

 

. theory should lead to expert advise which should lead to a decision. here theory leads to public consultation then department shuffles. petitions may sway a forthcoming announcement but i don't recall them changing it once made.

 

Generally I believe that is what happens though I agree at times they do hide behind public consultations on difficult decisions. Unfortunately as we are a small Island a small minority in number swing in public opinion can easily affect your chance of relection

 

I actually have a fair bit of sympathy for some ministers as it seems to me the mind set of many of the public appear to be that there is no budget or finance resources and they should provide what the public or some of the public want whether or not it is a matter they can effect or whether the cost of doing so is sensible e.g. Boats to Liverpool at the weekend, Save a manor house, underwrite PBF, Ramsey Pier etc

 

They do not get every decision right and it would easy to be populist, £1m to save Ramsey Pier, £300K to fund PBF, £whatever to buy a Manor house, £Xmillions to buy out theuser agreement or subsidise the SP but our takes would have to raise or something else would have to go to pay for

[Dodger]

I'd like to see them come out and make the statement that if by some miracle they made a profit (lol), they'd repay the underwriting in full.

 

An underwriting is providing for a shortfall, if they make a profit or break even then there wouldn't be a request for any of the governments money.

[ans]

That's one form of underwriting, commonly called Insurance Underwriting. There are other kinds that involve stumping up in advance. It was never made clear which it was, and quite frankly, any 'businessman' that manages to get his figures so dramatically wrong as to incur a three quarter of a million pound loss on a venture, probably doesn't know the difference.

 

A largely irrelevant semantic point though I guess. They're not getting any of the taxpayers money.

[keyboarder]

Who is Ernie?

The fastest milkman in Peel.

[Dodger]

That's one form of underwriting, commonly called Insurance Underwriting. There are other kinds that involve stumping up in advance. It was never made clear which it was, and quite frankly, any 'businessman' that manages to get his figures so dramatically wrong as to incur a three quarter of a million pound loss on a venture, probably doesn't know the difference.

 

A largely irrelevant semantic point though I guess. They're not getting any of the taxpayers money.

 

For 2008 you are right, but there is plans afoot that will secure festival funding for a 3 year plan, Mr Rodan is taking it to Tynwald! Lets see what happens...........

[Lost Login]

For 2008 you are right, but there is plans afoot that will secure festival funding for a 3 year plan, Mr Rodan is taking it to Tynwald! Lets see what happens...........

Ah the magical 3 year plan, which appears to translate that the Government a 3 year guarantee plus £40k a year for marketing and we will put on a festival which will hopefully break even or make a profit in 3 years time. If it makes a profit we PBF keep all the profits if it makes a loss then the Govt picks up the first £250,000. I have seen nothing to suggest that the amount will decrease over years so the govt might be looking at shelling out £870,000 over three years.

 

That might be worth a pop if the 3 year plan stood up to scutiny but does it. Well the promoter in the first year lost £750,000. The promoter admits mistakes with regard to the timing. Mistakes that many pointed out prior to the event. The promoter requires 8,000 per night to break even which is 1,500 per night better than the previous years Best night putting on the essentially the same mix of acts as the previous year. The promoter expects 4,500 people to attend the IoM for 5 nights to watch the acts spending £450 each. Acts that for those that have announced 2008 UK tours you can freely buy tickets for most of their UK dates. Acts also that that generally will not appeal to a festival audience and have limited cross appeal. The average Snow Patrol fan is unlikley to be a Girls Aloud or Westlife fan.

 

I know you are a big supporter of the PBF but just because there is a 3 year plan does not alter the basic concerns. Baldrick had many cunning plans. I would like there to be a decent music festival in the IoM, and I would be happy for the Govt to support it if the promoter could put together a decent business case for that stood up to scutiny. Unfortunately from what I have read on Street Heritages own web site makes me think they are a long way from being close to putting a decent plan together. It is full of spin and misdirection as it refers to Govt economists saying that if 4,500 people turned up for 5 nights and each spent £450 it would produce £X for the Manx economy. That is the business case and I agree that if it produced those figures it would be worth the Govt considering supporting. But the economist only calculated the figure if those numbers turned up. Nowhere is there any comment on the probability of those numbers actually being achieved. I believe the percentage probability is low and that is what the whole business plan depends on. i.e. a festival that will attract numbers from across to come to the IoM for a period and spend a decent amout of money.

 

You can put as many business plans together as you like but unless the basis assumptions add up they are not worth the paper they are written on, or in this case a full page advert in the courier.

[oogie boogie]

Don't worry about it, because the petition will save the day. There will be a festival darnit!

 

I did enjoy reading a brief article in the paper about how the Rolling Stones and Bruce Springsteen will now, not be coming to the festival.. I'm not sure how much Brucey demands per gig but I understand the Stones demand a rather large sum if you're to get them out of hiding. Was it that gig in Rio a couple of years ago where they made $1 million each???

 

Every festival in the history of festivals make a loss in their first few years, the difference is all other festivals ARE FESTIVALS!!!! This is not. Bands always inflate prices for festivals, so what a clever idea it is to ring up their booking agents and say "hi we're from the peel bay FESTIVAL... does your artists fancy a gig?..... whats that? £80K? no problem........ right boys that's the incest pair from X Factor booked, who's next?"

[molly]

"hi we're from the peel bay FESTIVAL... does your artists fancy a gig?..... whats that? £80K? no problem........ right boys that's the incest pair from X Factor booked, who's next?"

 

Quality!

[Grianane]

For 2008 you are right, but there is plans afoot that will secure festival funding for a 3 year plan, Mr Rodan is taking it to Tynwald! Lets see what happens...........

Ah the magical 3 year plan, which appears to translate that the Government a 3 year guarantee plus £40k a year for marketing and we will put on a festival which will hopefully break even or make a profit in 3 years time. If it makes a profit we PBF keep all the profits if it makes a loss then the Govt picks up the first £250,000. I have seen nothing to suggest that the amount will decrease over years so the govt might be looking at shelling out £870,000 over three years.

 

 

Here, here. The island is going mad, some "businessman" loses £750k on a venture and expects the public to underright the same venture for another 3 years.

 

I pressume these calculations allow for the saleries and expenses of his management team which was so successful last year. Perhaps as part of his business case he should consider ditching those who lead the project last year and cost him so dearly.

 

Alternatively instead of spending even more money on trying to sway Governments control of our money through advertising campaigns, online polls etc, he should apply to the Dragons Den and experience real succesful businessmen telling him to p*ss off because his idea stinks and you'd have to be mad to invest in it.

[parchedpeas]

Just found this thread, and read up on the ins and outs of it. Here's my take.

 

Going on what we saw last year, and the kind of response it got from local people, i can't see it ever working in its current format. The promoter says that lessons have been learned, but clearly they have not.

 

Nobody is going to come to the Isle of Man to see The Who and also be interested in seeing Sugababes. And nobody is going to want to pay upwards of £30 a ticket to see EACH ACT. For all the banging on about expensive travel to the UK to see these artists, surely if you went to every night of the PBF you could have afforded a ticket to Glastonbury? So who is going to travel here - 4500 people? Not likely when you factor in their travel expenses TO the ferry, and then ON the ferry (as long as it is sailing that day). Not if they then have to come here and spend a fortune to see acts that they can see in their local town hall at least once a year.

 

And to all the people signing the petition (most likely non-tax paying kids as a majority - "do you want xxx to come to the Isle of Man" is always going to get a yes isn't it) maybe this will teach you a lesson. Next time someone DOES put an act on, maybe you should go an support it. Ok, most of the acts on the Isle of Man are not peoples first choice, but if they are not supported then there will NEVER be a 'first choice' coming over because it will be seen as financially unviable. The fact that there were so many freebies given away to the PBF says it all - you all had your chance and you blew it.

 

That's not to say that promoters can charge what they like and book dross like Bonnie Tyler and expect it to fill out, because it won't. But there are some great acts we've seen over here lately, in intimate settings, that could have done with a bit more support. Until people dip into their pockets and support what we've got, we'll never be able to finance anything bigger or better. And it might mean throwing some money at something you've never heard before.

 

Finally, there is a festival that COULD work on the Isle of Man. It involves a three day ticket, two stages and a load of up and coming bands who want to break. There would be manx bands, there would be some 'bigger' names who maybe have gone solo, or have fallen out of favour with the heavy rotation-mongers of Radio 2. And that could do with a government grant - why waste 250,000 on an event - why not sponsor 100,000 boat journeys to the Isle of Man for ticket holders, or discount the flights. Once the people are here, and the buzz is created, then the three year plan would end in big acts WANTING to play here. As others have said, start small-ish and put the money in the right spot. We are bang in the middle of the British Isles, we should be the easiest place for people to get to to see bands. We've got empty fields strecthing miles where we could stick a temporary venue, and we've got lots of locals who WOULD support such an event, purely for the piss up and the chance to shag someone who their not related to.

 

The Peel Bay Festival is none of those things, it is an ego trip by an increasingly desperate looking promoter who only idea seems to be 'get the government to pay'. Private enterprise tried his plan, and it failed. This is not Mao's China, and it is not the job of government to prop up bad business.

[Miss Take]

What evidence is there that the IOW festival was ever run at a loss? If it's run as a commercial venture, it would have been either profit making from the start or they would have had a business plan (showing how it would eventually become profitable over a couple of years) in order to get funds from a bank or other investor to support it during the loss making period. The plan would include sensitivity analyses, showing potential profits / losses made with different ticket prices and number of attendees and would be used to work out the chances of the whole thing being viable at all.

 

I'd just like to point out that this 3 year business plan suddenly appeared after I wrote the above post. I'd like to claim my consultancy fee, please. Hmm, wonder what the going rate is?

[The Godfather of Manx House]

I'd like to see them come out and make the statement that if by some miracle they made a profit (lol), they'd repay the underwriting in full.

 

Surely that would be the main criteria in the first place ? An underwriting only makes up any shortfall. Hence the necessity to pay it back once in the black.

 

Or did I miss something here ?...

 

...GOMH*...

 

PS I will, in future, read any posts I've missed before I post ...