Peel Bay Festival

[ai_Droid]

AI - I haven't been to the UK to see bands, I have been to see them in the bowl in Douglas, Villa gardens and the Peel Bay Festival. I would need babysitters as well to go across to see a band, the boys are too young.

 

So once again, you're making stuff up?

 

I do go away to see bands, and festivals and the peel bay festival did nothing to prevent that.

 

How many locals do you think would have travelled to the UK to see Roland Gibb, The Bootleg Beatles and Mat Willis?

[Lost Login]

With regard to the benefits, I have mentioned this many times, it keeps our money on the island rather than having to travel off island to see a live act of a simular calibur.

 

How many locals who went last year would have travelled off Island to see the same bands? Maybe a few but I would estimate thousand. Your statement is only relevent if attendees chose to stay on the Island and go to PBF rather than go to an alternative off Island. What percentage of the money actually taken stayed on the Island. Certainly not the fees for the bands, the hire of the tent, stage etc. Your argument therefore does not really hold water. In addition even where people go off Island to watch bands the Island does to an extent benefit even if it is only the SP, The Airline or travel agents taking their cut

 

 

Advertising grant is available at 50% of the proposed marketing cost, the underwriting has to be verified with the books being provided to the government for checking, there are checks in place!

 

Both statements are correct but it does not matter what % is available or how much is available, if such spend does not produce a result. Just because money is available does not mean it should be spent. Should we give a grant of 50% oto somebody if they were daft enought to spend say £1,000,000 on attract residents of South Georgia to visit the Island. My answer would be no as it would not produce a return.

 

Equally there are checks to ensure the money was spent, but what about if the spend was necessary or at fair value. As an example I presume you could hire chairs of different quality at different prices. The money would be correctly spent but should you hire better quality chairs with say arms and cushioned setas at £10 ago if you could get cheap basic ones that would do the job for £1.

 

I didn't have a problem with Juan's amendment! BUT, unfortunately I feel that the parties now will not be able to work together though, the government didn't offer the villa free, they still were not going to underwrite the event and the cost to break even would have made the ticket prices a lot higher. There needs to be a compromise on both sides!

 

Unfortunately that is true but I do not thing Irvings tactics were ever aimed at getting a compromise. It was his way or the high way and I saw his tactics almost as an attempt at public coersion. Eranshaw's speech in the debate though also would not have helped reconcile matters but I got the feeling that he and his dept had been well and truely pissed off by Irvings media blitz by that point.

 

JT amendentment did not rule out the Villa Marina being free or a loss guarantee etc In fact it did not rule anything in or out. From what I could see it was an attempt to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. That would or should have come up with a workable proposal which could have been costed and adjusted accordingly. Having put together a sensible long term plan, and the offer was to look at as a 5 year project not 3 years, the funding and if it made sense could have been considered. JT's approach was in my opinion was correct first come up with a workable plane then cost.

 

There is also the question if say two weeks before the event PBF said to the Govt we have run out of money as tickets sales have been disappointing and the event can not now go ahead without an additional £X in Govt help

 

Voting for a candidate in an election is your choice, with regard to being free with public money I am most certainly not!

Fair enough I have no knowledge of your record as a councillor but on this topic you seem to be very for public money to be spent with no public control and where those holding the public purse strings believe the money would not have been spent wisely.

 

The government though spends a lot more than the amount requested, the deputy chief exec for the DHSS for example over £100,000 even though 2 years ago the post was scrapped, by an independent assessor. £299,000 for a house refurbishment for those with learning disabilities,

Just because money is "waisted" elsewhere does not provide a reason for waisting money elsewhere else.

 

, but guess what the minister didn't bring that to Tynwald, I wonder why!

 

The minister did not bring the issue of the PBF to Tynwald, a MHK in a private capacity did.

 

The minister seems to have forgotten that he is responsible for leisure as well as tourism and this is a leisure activity and I feel that this is going to be a major loss to the island.

I doubt if he has forgotten that but rather that he did not believe the spending on £300,000 on the PBF was value for money!

 

major loss to the island. What are the government doing to replace this for 2008 or even 2009? Should the DOTL run the whole event?

Yes it may be a loss to the Island but not having many things on the Island is a disadvantage however ultimately it all comes down to economics. You appear to fail to understand that there has been no suggestion that having a music a festival on the Island is a bad idea in principal just that the cost of putting on in the way suggested by PBF did not make finacial sense. It lost £750,000 last year so it that is hard to argue that is not the case especially as it appears that many of the lessons from last year would not appear have been learnt.

[Dodger]

You keep going on about the cost saved from going across to see a band, but you're clutching at straws with that argument. E.g. If it costs me £200 for a weekend away to watch Green Velvet live, in the extremely unlikely event of the PBF ever getting Green Velvet (or some other act that I'd want to see), I wouldn't spend that £200 in Peel. I'd do it as cheaply as possible, and then still go away for a weekend.

 

Why then wouldn't someone from the UK do the same. The Who only played in the IOM and not the UK, therefore any fan of the Who would have needed to come over here to see them.

 

I don't always go for the cheapest option, I go for the best value for money, which is why I went for the gold tickets and they were good value as I had no other costs to consider. The fact that you would still go off island is your choice, mine was to stay and support the festival and enjoy the bands!

[Dodger]

AI - I haven't been to the UK to see bands, I have been to see them in the bowl in Douglas, Villa gardens and the Peel Bay Festival. I would need babysitters as well to go across to see a band, the boys are too young.

 

So once again, you're making stuff up?

 

I do go away to see bands, and festivals and the peel bay festival did nothing to prevent that.

 

How many locals do you think would have travelled to the UK to see Roland Gibb, The Bootleg Beatles and Mat Willis?

 

And how many would go away to see the Who, you cherry pick to try and make a point! How am I making stuff up? I saw Status Quo in the bowl and went to the Joey Dunlop's memorial gig, Van morrison.

[Mr. Sausages]

You keep going on about the cost saved from going across to see a band, but you're clutching at straws with that argument. E.g. If it costs me £200 for a weekend away to watch Green Velvet live, in the extremely unlikely event of the PBF ever getting Green Velvet (or some other act that I'd want to see), I wouldn't spend that £200 in Peel. I'd do it as cheaply as possible, and then still go away for a weekend.

 

Why then wouldn't someone from the UK do the same. The Who only played in the IOM and not the UK, therefore any fan of the Who would have needed to come over here to see them.

 

The Who played at Glastonbury.

I don't always go for the cheapest option, I go for the best value for money, which is why I went for the gold tickets and they were good value as I had no other costs to consider. The fact that you would still go off island is your choice, mine was to stay and support the festival and enjoy the bands!

But you don't go away for music, so you're money is staying here no matter what.

[Lost Login]

Why then wouldn't someone from the UK do the same. The Who only played in the IOM and not the UK, therefore any fan of the Who would have needed to come over here to see them.

Congatulations, you have got the point, People are only likely to come to the IoM to see bands that they can not see in the UK because they are not touring or are sold out. Of last years acts only The Who and Madness might come into the latter category and I am not sure many on this years prospective list do. Those two bands were also possibly also the biggest names so it is no wonder that they had the best attendances, although still below the required break even figure.

 

However there are very few groups the above applies to, hence unless you put on an actual festival together there is little lilehood of it being a draw in the UK and hence the reason many of us do not believe that what PBF was sugessting hangs together. By the way The Who did tour the UK last year, they did 9 or so nights outside festivals. They also toured in Europe.

[Fossils]

This is not Mao's China, and it is not the job of government to prop up bad business.

 

..........and the MEA is an example of good business? ..........and who's propping it up?

[Lost Login]

This is not Mao's China, and it is not the job of government to prop up bad business.

 

..........and the MEA is an example of good business? ..........and who's propping it up?

 

It built a power station that was required to keep the lights on in the IoM for the next X years. There was I believe no suggestion that the money was misspent od the new power station was not required. The only "problem" is whether they required Govt approval for one of the loans.

 

Either way though is not particularly relevent as an example as leaving a music festival to go to the wall is not going to have a major effect on our every day lives. Leaving the sole provider of electricity just might.

[Fossils]

This is not Mao's China, and it is not the job of government to prop up bad business.

 

..........and the MEA is an example of good business? ..........and who's propping it up?

 

It built a power station that was required to keep the lights on in the IoM for the next X years. There was I believe no suggestion that the money was misspent od the new power station was not required. The only "problem" is whether they required Govt approval for one of the loans.

 

Either way though is not particularly relevent as an example as leaving a music festival to go to the wall is not going to have a major effect on our every day lives. Leaving the sole provider of electricity just might.

 

So we aren't already linked up to the UK national grid?

[monasqueen]

How many locals do you think would have travelled to the UK to see Roland Gibb

 

None

 

Who is ROLAND Gibb?

 

[modey]

I've been listening to Dan Davis discussing this on Manx Radio and I can't believe how many numpties are calling to say that it should be continued because it was such a success!

 

It lost well over half a million quid.

The tent was hardly, if ever, filled.

It probably didn't cause more than a tiny handful of people to visit the island at the busiest time of the year complete with the highest rip-off prices on transport and almost everything else.

 

It failed!

It failed because it was over-ambitious

It failed because it was held at the wrong time of year.

It failed because a majority of the acts were past their sell-by date.

It failed because there's a much smaller local audience for it than it's supporters claim there to be.

 

spot on.

 

I go away to many gigs and festivals during the year and didn't go to one of these shows because nothing appealed to me.

 

The same goes for most of my mates who go to gigs off island all the time, they didn't go to one show because they were all really poor acts.

 

For something like this to work you really need to have better acts than a load of has been's.

 

Oh and it's not a festival,not even close to a festival.

[manxamillion]

So we aren't already linked up to the UK national grid?

 

I don't think so? A lot of fish would be floating.

[ans]

I would like to see detailed accounts of how last year made such a significant loss. Why aren't these being offered?

 

Or are they likely to be the final nail in the coffin.

[thesultanofsheight]

I would like to see detailed accounts of how last year made such a significant loss. Why aren't these being offered?

 

Or are they likely to be the final nail in the coffin.

 

I'm guessing that hiring the biggest free standing structure in Europe rather than having the event in a field had something to do with the spectacular loss.

[Lost Login]

I would like to see detailed accounts of how last year made such a significant loss. Why aren't these being offered?

 

Or are they likely to be the final nail in the coffin.

In reality from what Irving said today it is all now a dead issue, but if they had strengthened the case for PBF you would have thought he would have published some figures in some form. It is not as if Irving has being keeping a low profile on this.

 

In any case I do not expect PBF to issue detailed accounts to all and Sundry, it is a private matter, but I though Rodden would have been better briefed when he made his case to the house. He had a number for people attending off Island and in total, but no figures of attendance per night or those for paid face falue, those who received discounts and those who received complimentary tickets. This I thought would have fairly basic info and important if he really expected the house to vote in favour.

 

In reality the figures can not have been that good on average per night as the attendance in total per PBF figures was just over 25K. Apparently 7k odd went to The Who which leaves 18k for the other six nights. That gives an average of 3,000 per night in attendance with many of those if hear say is right not paying.

 

That is a long way off the 6,500 needed to brak even on allowing for a £250,000 guarantee or 8,000 without.