triskelion Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 How much does it cost to buy a ticket on the day? How much notice do you get of a cancellation appointment for an essential consultation? Air ambulance hasn't got room, do you get a ticket then, it brings additional stress onto a patient that is already stressed and blood pressure already high due to the circumstances. The savings from an essential service seem to have been made available for a pen pusher, less civil servants not more are needed. Saving money should be done by getting rid of middle management and higher if they cannot prove what they do during the day. It isn't just their salery it is also the additional costs, pensions, tax and costs. I worked for a company that did just that and there wasn't any change to the front line! Service carried on as normal! I would also be interested to see their SLA with carriers and services that they purchase in general. There are ways to save money without it affecting the level of service to the patient, which should include looking after their stress levels. Much of this is speculative. If you are so confident that money can be saved, where can this be done? Yes, yes firing managers, but which ones? Your argument against the appointment of a Deputy Chief Executive (which is yet to be done so) seems to be based entirely on a prejudice against management in general. You may well be right, and my confidence in such a post is not boosted by the fact that in recent years it was previously decided such a post was not required, but just saying 'we need less managers' is somewhat insufficient. "I would also be interested to see their SLA with carriers and services that they purchase in general." - Write to you your MHK and request that they ask about it in Questions. Oldmanxfella: Democracy may very well come from the Greek for 'rule by the people,' but that could be interpreted in many different ways. It is notable that the Greeks never implemented such a system themselves, as only adult men who had completed military training could vote in Athens, and they were very much a minority. Thus, we could take 'rule by the people' to be simply as opposed to 'rule by a hereditary leader,' rather than as in independant concept in of itself. Regardless, we are not talking about democracy in terms of linguistics, but as a viable social structure for administering a country. In Western European-style civilisation, that means each adult carrying a single vote to be used in support of a representative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 In Western European-style civilisation, that means each adult carrying a single vote to be used in support of a representative. Yes we appoint a representative. Somebody to represent us, and somebody whose role it should be to carry out the consensus view of the people (because eople put these people in to office, and people also put them out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Yes we appoint a representative. Somebody to represent us, and somebody whose role it should be to carry out the consensus view of the people (because eople put these people in to office, and people also put them out). Not strictly speaking: The idea of representative democracy is more paternalistic in nature - representatives represent the people's "best interests" first and foremost, and their views and consensus second, primarily when they tally with the former. Populism, that is appealing to and appeasing the public by basing policies solely on the views of the people, has often been considered a flaw or corruption of the democratic practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 From the IoM Today Website report But John Houghton (Douglas North) argued: 'Those patients are very frightened when they go away – that must be taken into account.' When asked to consult Tynwald before implementing the proposals, Mr Teare said: 'As this is primarily a clinical issue, it would not be appropriate to consult with Members of Tynwald.' Having accompanied a relative on a number of occasions I would agree with John Houghton. When flying someone away for serious medical attention, it makes a world of difference having a close friend or relative with them. I am sure many doctors and consultants would agree. This is a matter that potentially effects everyone directly and I feel it would be appropriate for the Minister to consult members of Tynwald, at least. Eddie Teare has a very close ally in Juan Watterson MHK for Rushen and I often wonder how much accountancy advice or suggestion is the Health Minister taking from him. I cannot deny Juan Watteson's accountancy qualification, but for such a young politician his life experience can only be limited. In any case, I would suggest that this is a matter that needs a bit of further thinking than the immediate bottom line of ££££s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barber Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Coming shortly after the 'amputation' farce, this really is appalling. OK it may well be subject to abuse by some but surely that is down to proper examination of the applications, not blanket bans on categories.If the government wants to save money then do so by Reducing Staff - just took on another new director or whatever for the DHSS Stop employing consultants so much Reduce the jaunts by Brown et al to foreign parts Control costs on public projects Amazing - they throw away money on pointless exercises yet fail to provide when needed. It really is disgusting. That would be honorable member for Douglas East Mrs Cannell. A prime example of the maxim - engage brain before opening mouth. Suggested Withdrawal of Escorts for UK Medical Appointments The Minister of Health has let it be known that the Department of Health and Social Security is considering the withdrawal of the scheme whereby patients who are in need of specialist, UK based, medical investigation or treatment can, if they choose, have an escort (generally a family member) at these times of great personal stress. The claimed justification for this is the old chestnut “some people abuse the system, and see this as a free shopping trip opportunity”. This is, without doubt, the most overbearing and illogical knee jerk reaction to what, at best, is a minor abuse of a scheme that gives enormous reassurance and comfort to those who are sick enough to have to travel off the Isle of Man to get treatment, and equally offers some reassurance to the closest family of the patient. It is certainly a well established MEDICAL fact that recovery is faster and more complete in patients that have the lowest possible levels of stress throughout their treatment and recuperation, which in and of itself is probably as good a justification to retain, and possibly improve, the scheme as can be imagined, rather than simply creating huge stress levels, in patients already badly stressed, by an ill-conceived and dogmatic policy change. We are supposed to be a caring society, whose watch word is “Freedom to Flourish”, but if you are sick enough to have to go to the adjacent Isle for medical treatment, then you don’t qualify! Certainly, any suggestion that withdrawal is a way forward is as stupid as it is odious, and makes absolutely no sense from any medical, humanitarian, responsible or caring position or point of view. If the DHSS have any proof that cheating is happening, other than purely anecdotal tittle tattle, then presumably the various Laws relating to payment of Social Security benefits for purposes other than that for which it is legally paid would apply, and steps for the recovery of the illegally obtained funding should be vigorously applied. The proposed change to the system is, very simply put, a lazy copout. As a quick “money grab” that tries to cloak itself in a very thin veneer of respectability, by its suggestion that the aim is to stop those who cheat, it is simply offensive. This is a very poorly disguised attempt at saving money, but this time at the expense of some of the most vulnerable and fragile members of our society. It is, quite frankly, disgusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Saving money at its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I do bang on about this, but if the contract for childcare given to St Christopher's did not have so much fat in it that the IOM charity was able to remit £260,000 (from memory) to its UK based associate, then perhaps Mr T wouldn't need to look at making savings in this area. Perhaps Mr T should watch the BBC programme being trailered at the moment which has the business chappie who examined ways of achieving efficiencies within the NHS in the UK return after a year to see what, if anything, had changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 and on a similar note, the amount spent on specialist flights for childcare is quite frightening. I appreciate this is a touchy subject which we all shy away from but lets not pretend it doesn't exist, eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Ten Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I would just like to add my personal thoughts on this very immotive subject! If someone is deemed by a medical consultant/expert to need to attend an off Island Hospital or clinic then what the fuck has it to do with a politician? these elected representatives are just laymen and are usually postmen, painters, joiners, chimney sweeps, etc... not medical experts! If these people (the patients) need to go away for genuine medical reasons then there should be no political interferrence, if the bean counters do interferre then I will lose all my faith in the Isle of Man Government. Politicians, keep your nose out of medical buisness as it is very immotive and very personal to the patients and the immidiate families.... Last 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 It's not the patients they are saying shouldn't go, just the accompanying relative, in some cases. That said their argument hasn't been persuasive yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 As with the equally emotive subject of adding flouride to the water supply - the Minster's case is as yet not proven. ... these elected representatives are just laymen and are usually postmen, painters, joiners, chimney sweeps, etc... not medical experts! A fair point but they are, after all, popularly elected. Perhaps more worrying is putting a man who has worked for nearly 40 years in banking in charge of the Health Services although of course he may well be a useful man at the MEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Politicians, keep your nose out of medical buisness as it is very immotive and very personal to the patients and the immidiate families.... Though, in this case, surely only for those that have to travel for the treatment of severe constipation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 How much does it cost to buy a ticket on the day? How much notice do you get of a cancellation appointment for an essential consultation? Air ambulance hasn't got room, do you get a ticket then, it brings additional stress onto a patient that is already stressed and blood pressure already high due to the circumstances. The savings from an essential service seem to have been made available for a pen pusher, less civil servants not more are needed. Saving money should be done by getting rid of middle management and higher if they cannot prove what they do during the day. It isn't just their salery it is also the additional costs, pensions, tax and costs. I worked for a company that did just that and there wasn't any change to the front line! Service carried on as normal! I would also be interested to see their SLA with carriers and services that they purchase in general. There are ways to save money without it affecting the level of service to the patient, which should include looking after their stress levels. Much of this is speculative. If you are so confident that money can be saved, where can this be done? Yes, yes firing managers, but which ones? Your argument against the appointment of a Deputy Chief Executive (which is yet to be done so) seems to be based entirely on a prejudice against management in general. You may well be right, and my confidence in such a post is not boosted by the fact that in recent years it was previously decided such a post was not required, but just saying 'we need less managers' is somewhat insufficient. "I would also be interested to see their SLA with carriers and services that they purchase in general." - Write to you your MHK and request that they ask about it in Questions. Oldmanxfella: Democracy may very well come from the Greek for 'rule by the people,' but that could be interpreted in many different ways. It is notable that the Greeks never implemented such a system themselves, as only adult men who had completed military training could vote in Athens, and they were very much a minority. Thus, we could take 'rule by the people' to be simply as opposed to 'rule by a hereditary leader,' rather than as in independant concept in of itself. Regardless, we are not talking about democracy in terms of linguistics, but as a viable social structure for administering a country. In Western European-style civilisation, that means each adult carrying a single vote to be used in support of a representative. Speculative maybe, as I don't work within the health service or social services. The DHSS has just requested over £260,000 for refurbishment of a building?! Primary care should come first! Managers within certain areas can generally be let go without it affecting the running of a business, this I have seen first hand. With a time and motion study it should be possible to see where the slack is and where the shortfall is and redress the balance. Asking our MHK's to ask the question is a good suggestion and one I will follow up. The pink book advises how much they spend in certain areas, but some of the areas can be large and there isn't always a full breakdown of the expenditure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 "6. Refurbishment Cushag House, Four Roads, Port St Mary - The Minister for Health and Social Security to move - That Tynwald approves the Department of Health and Social Security incurring expenditure not exceeding the sum of £299,000 for the refurbishment of the existing Cushag House, Four Roads, Port St Mary to provide accommodation for adults with learning difficulties." Tynwald order paper 11/12/07 £300,000 looking to be found for refurbishment of property, but looking to save money by not letting friends or relatives travel with patients going off island for treatment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 "6. Refurbishment Cushag House, Four Roads, Port St Mary -The Minister for Health and Social Security to move - That Tynwald approves the Department of Health and Social Security incurring expenditure not exceeding the sum of £299,000 for the refurbishment of the existing Cushag House, Four Roads, Port St Mary to provide accommodation for adults with learning difficulties." Tynwald order paper 11/12/07 £300,000 looking to be found for refurbishment of property, but looking to save money by not letting friends or relatives travel with patients going off island for treatment! Why is giving those with learning difficulties a decent place to live a lower priority than providing a patient escort service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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