Lead Boot. 2

[John Barber]

In my previous post, Lead Boot, Peel Bay Festival was nothing more than an example, on which to hang, once again, an example of the quality of Government we are all "enjoying" at this time.

 

I make no case, one way or another for the Peel Bay Festival, because like all the arguments that have gone before, there are parts of the argument I would agree with, some I would not.

 

However, I thought that the recent behaviour of the Minister for the Department for Tourism and Leisure was absolutly shameful.

 

When we start to "Govern" by inuendo and name calling, I think it is past time that the quality of the Ministers involved was closely looked into, and questions were asked, at the highest level of our Government, as to the suitability of the Minister for the vitally (if only for the image of thre Isle of Man) post of Minister at the Department of Tourism and Lesiure.

[Declan]

What were the comments that so enraged you?

[John Barber]

What were the comments that so enraged you?

 

 

Read Lead Boot for the answer to your question!

[triskelion]

What were the comments that so enraged you?

 

 

Read Lead Boot for the answer to your question!

 

But your 'Lead Boot' thread talks only of the PBF, which the Government had very good cause not to bucket money into.

[VinnieK]

I don't understand why you consider this an example of "shameful namecalling". According to your post Earnshaw said:

 

he had evidence that the festival organizer failed to pay a creditor on time, and suggested the loss of £750,000 on the 2007 festival was due to paying ‘over market values to secure acts’

 

and

 

expressed doubt that the acts billed for the 2008 Festival - Brian Adams, Simply Red , Girls Aloud, Westlife, Duran Duran and possibly Snow Patrol were ever lined up.

 

Surely these are legitimate concerns and questions? It's possible he's wrong, but it's a bit strong to say he's guilty of launching "a purely personalized attack" on Irving or of innuendo and namecalling (compared with, say, your post, which is practically all name calling and personalized attack).

 

Also, you say you make no case one way or the other with regards to the Peel Bay Festival, and yet your tone is overwhealmingly positive towards Irving, portraying him as triumphing despite the naysayers, striving for the benefit of the Island, implying that the primary cause of a lack of cooperation between the DTL and the PBF was Earnshaw's statements, and implicitly contrasting him as a visionary looking to the future when compared with Earnshaw.

[The Old Git]

This is the second thread in two days you've started so you can have a pop at Adrian Earnshaw.

 

I voted for him first time around and I'd have voted for him at the last election if the government hadn't removed me from the electoral roll

 

All I hear from Irving and his supporters is "waaa waaaa waaaaaa"

 

The PBF wasn't a success and I don't want my tax money being used to prop it up so that prima donna Irving can indulge his fantasies. Have you read the main PBF thread to gauge the feeling on here?

[John Barber]

First, let’s clear up some confusion. I am not promoting public funding for the Peel Bay Festival. In fact, before this lot was debated by the Government I very seriously suggested to the organizers and promoters of the PBF that in my opinion, they should look to sourcing private funding for future events, much along the lines of theatrical ‘Angels’. If the event is a success, you make money, if it is not, then you lose what you put in. To this end, I offered a contribution to the funding, so, in effect, I am quite prepared to put my money where my mouth is.

In answer to VinnieK. The place for details such as were put into the debate by the Minister is, I would suggest, not in a public debate that is being broadcast by local radio. I am sure you would be very hacked off if someone in Government, during a broadcast sitting, proclaimed that they had heard that you were slow to pay a bill, or that you paid over the odds to gain some advantage. Equally, I am sure that you would be less than amused if someone, whom you knew to be trying to belittle your work to bring some benefit to the community, suggested that your position was fantasy, and only based on hearsay.

Jonathan Irving has shown more vision with Peel Viking Festival in 2006, and this year’s Peel Bay Festival than the DTL have managed, and promoted two events that certainly raised the profile of the Isle of Man on a very much wider stage. All in all, it’s quite hard not to be supportive of someone who gets off his backside and does something positive. Contrasting the efforts of Jonathan Irving and Adrian Earnshaw does, in my opinion, demonstrate a considerable difference in vision.

Triskelion, I am not aware that I suggested that the Government put money into anything; my concern is the lack of balance and respect shown by a Minister in this Government.

The Old Git makes the point that I have started two threads in two days. Not so, it’s all the same thread, I was just drawing you back to the topic I was trying to raise, which was not to promote or otherwise the PBF, but to comment on the state of our political health.

[The Old Git]

The Old Git makes the point that I have started two threads in two days. Not so, it’s all the same thread,

 

No it's not, it's quite plainly two separate threads (i.e. sets of postings) on the same subject - attack Adrian Earnshaw.

 

The PBF made quite a loss, was hardly filled to capacity at a time when the island was bursting at the seams, so I don't see how it can be classed as a success and that Irving is some sort of visionary. On that basis, asking for tax payers money to underwrite future ventures on his sole terms deserves to be knocked back.

[Declan]

The Old Git makes the point that I have started two threads in two days. Not so, it's all the same thread, I was just drawing you back to the topic I was trying to raise, which was not to promote or otherwise the PBF, but to comment on the state of our political health.

 

Then why start a second thread? And act as if I'm stupid because I didn't know what you were talking about because you were referring to information in the first thread?

 

If this one doesn't go the way you like it will you start a third thread and a fourth until the replies meet your requirements?

 

If your first thread was misinterpreted as being about PBF, when you wanted it to be a thread slagging off Earnshaw or the way COMIN conducts itself or whatever you are trying to raise (I'm still not clear) wouldn't an explanatory post in the first thread have done the trick?

[sarahc]

Who is John Barber?

[Lost Login]

The place for details such as were put into the debate by the Minister is, I would suggest, not in a public debate that is being broadcast by local radio. I am sure you would be very hacked off if someone in Government, during a broadcast sitting, proclaimed that they had heard that you were slow to pay a bill, or that you paid over the odds to gain some advantage. Equally, I am sure that you would be less than amused if someone, whom you knew to be trying to belittle your work to bring some benefit to the community, suggested that your position was fantasy, and only based on hearsay.

 

The debate was promted by a motion put forward by Steve Roden. Presumably with the full agreement anfd knowledge of Irving. If Irving did not want certain facts made public then simply he should have not tried to make it a matter of debate and bought it onto the public domain. Long statements on the Steet Heritage web site, interviews to the radio. Adverts on the radio and in the newspapers.

 

What was Earnshaw meant to say in response, Sorry guys but we don't believe that this should be supported as it stands but I can not tell the reasoning behind this.

 

You might have had a point if the information was put into the public domain with no reasoning. It was not, it was in response to Irving publicity blitz trying to pressurise the government to change its mind.

 

Jonathan Irving has shown more vision with Peel Viking Festival in 2006, and this year’s Peel Bay Festival than the DTL have managed, and promoted two events that certainly raised the profile of the Isle of Man on a very much wider stage. All in all, it’s quite hard not to be supportive of someone who gets off his backside and does something positive. Contrasting the efforts of Jonathan Irving and Adrian Earnshaw does, in my opinion, demonstrate a considerable difference in vision.

 

I am not sure how much either event promoted the event outside the Island however comparing & contrasting the two parties when they operate under two completely different criteria is erroneous. I doubt if the Minister has a brief which allows him to promote an event that will make a loss of £750,000 plus. Equally Irving did not have to restrict himself to coming up with an event that would brak even.

 

Triskelion, I am not aware that I suggested that the Government put money into anything; my concern is the lack of balance and respect shown by a Minister in this Government.

 

I will revert to my earlier point. Earnshaw was purely responding to a motion presented to the house and Irving's media blitz. If Irving can not handle that then he should not have started what he could not handle

 

The Old Git makes the point that I have started two threads in two days. Not so, it’s all the same thread, I was just drawing you back to the topic I was trying to raise, which was not to promote or otherwise the PBF, but to comment on the state of our political health.

 

I think you are trying to argue black is white. There are two threads both started by you, however they only count as one because they relate to each other?

[Celt]

Imo, Adrian Earnshaw was pressured into a position where he had to lay his cards on the table and give ALL the reasons behind saying no.

 

This pressure was applied by Mr Irving and his supporters.

 

PBF lost, i'm led to believe, £750,000. So who i'm their right mind would think it's going to make a profit next time.

 

I think Mr Earnshaw was acting in a gentlemen way by not dragging all the bad things that went wrong with when he was first asked to comment.

 

He should, in hindsight, told everyone in the first place that it was a bum deal then and nothings changed.

 

As far as i'm concerned, no-one would put all this time and effort into flogging a dead donley unless there was something in it for them.

 

One question to Mr Barber though,

 

By how much were you prepared to put your money where your mouth is?

 

For going by what you posted, you were prepared to take a gamble. If it failed you loose, if it succeeds you gain. Money making again.

[WTF]

Who is John Barber?

 

John Barber perhaps???

[ans]

We don't need a third PBF thread thanks.