Amadeus Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Anyone know why someone would oppose to a shelter for the homeless? Maybe there's some bigger reason, but it does look like a case of Nimbyism, tbh... Why would anyone object to that? Ho Ho - Merry Christmas - let's let these antisocial drunks freeze to death while we happily celebrate - they all should just get a job anyway, shouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I know nothing about this case but could comment on my experience from UK when one was set up not too far from me. The shelter had a no-drunks housed policy - fine but those that turned up too drunk to be admitted would seek shelter in the immediate neighbourhood (including a playground used by young children), those seeking admission would also gather for some time prior to opening, again local open space was dominated, the waiting group also included those who were getting drunk - the local police were given power to disperse drinkers but in the end a more sensible siting of the shelter was needed - the original turned into a bail hostel which appears to given much less trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Anyone know why someone would oppose to a shelter for the homeless? Maybe there's some bigger reason, but it does look like a case of Nimbyism, tbh... Why would anyone object to that? Ho Ho - Merry Christmas - let's let these antisocial drunks freeze to death while we happily celebrate - they all should just get a job anyway, shouldn't they? Sometimes you can sort of understand it, but in this case the building already houses the drug and alcohol unit and you see the drunks and junkies going in and out all the time. Is it really any different using it as a homeless shelter? I don't think so. This leaves me wondering what grounds the residents are using to to oppose this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannin the pub Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 There was never used to be any homeless on the Island they kept telling us. Even the guy Ted who slept down the Villa wasn't homeless aparently, he just wouldnt take or want what they offered him. Still, there must be a problem now and it seems there will be a campagne to embaras the detracters. To be honest I wonder if you would object amadeus for such a home being next to your house if you had put your life savings into it and was raising a family up nearby. I see some of these caracters down the broadway sometimes, sometimes can in hand or swigging the bottle. Still, I wouldnt want to live next door but i suppose you get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 It's a tricky one really, isn't it? I'm sure we all like to think that we're charitable to those less fortunate than ourselves, and providing a bit of cash helps us to feel a little warmer inside: ) , but who can honestly say they wouldn't rather have these often pitiful reprobates housed as far away from their own house as possible? Think of the market values, lol ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I know nothing about this case but could comment on my experience from UK when one was set up not too far from me. The shelter had a no-drunks housed policy - fine but those that turned up too drunk to be admitted would seek shelter in the immediate neighbourhood (including a playground used by young children), those seeking admission would also gather for some time prior to opening, again local open space was dominated, the waiting group also included those who were getting drunk - the local police were given power to disperse drinkers but in the end a more sensible siting of the shelter was needed - the original turned into a bail hostel which appears to given much less trouble. Nimbyism at its best: sensible siting being a site away from you! As for the homeless shelter here, I can't see that a homeless shelter anywhere here would give any greater problems than some of the childcare units. How many really and truly homeless people are there on the island? By that I mean people whose only option is sleeping on the streets. I am not saying that there isn't a problem, but I do wonder if the numbers quoted are 'technical' homeless (i.e. without a place of their own whether rented or owned and living on the goodwill of friends and family) as opposed to the truly homeless who live on the streets. I do wonder if the numbers are being inflated to draw attention to undoubtedly difficult circumstances, but these may not amount to homelessness in the true sense of the term and it is actually counterproductive as we are asked to believe a figure that clearly isn't evident on the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Anybody got a link to the numbers of homeless there are supposed to be please. Can't find one anywhere. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Nimbyism at its best: sensible siting being a site away from you! I'm afraid alcoholics are not a group of rational people - they are certainly not a group that any of the local mothers wanted congregating (about 10 or more at any time - several very drunk) in their local children's playground - 30 years ago a significant number of such people would have been in the care of places like Ballamona but care in the community dumped them onto the streets - locally there appears to be a compromise, the local group of drunks drink and argue at the back carpark of a council owned youth centre (there is shelter) with overnight provision for the sober a couple of hundred yards away - however this was after a concerted effort by police and council to make the few public places in the town attractive again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Happy New Year so let's kick off with a completely unseasonably uncharitable and contentious post: A. circa 600 unemployed on the Island - in excess of 1000 jobs available - so get a job = buy food and pay rent! B. Majority of homeless are not - its their choice. C. State aid available - if not eleigible probably not a genuine 'homeless' anyway so shouldn't be on the Island - return from whence you came. Biggoted, narrow minded and uncharitable it might be but take a straw poll among passengers on the Onchan omnibus and I'll bet a majority would agree with at least one of the above. There is no excuse for being 'homeless' on this Island; temporarily perhaps, but not long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Same with the 'state aid' you mention, also need an address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanna Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 To get a job you need an address. Unless you want them to work for someone called jimmy "five fingers" harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Same with the 'state aid' you mention, also need an address. No you don't. People of no fixed abode can still sign on and get JSA. It's just that they need to sign on daily and prove they are actually looking for work. Too difficult for many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 There is no excuse for being 'homeless' on this Island; temporarily perhaps, but not long term. Yes but is this not the reason why the current drug and alcohol unit is applying for this change to a property it already uses? Most of the homeless are pissheads or junkies who are already visiting the existing facility in Harris Terrace so this would seem to make sense in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Happy New Year so let's kick off with a completely unseasonably uncharitable and contentious post: A. circa 600 unemployed on the Island - in excess of 1000 jobs available - so get a job = buy food and pay rent! B. Majority of homeless are not - its their choice. C. State aid available - if not eleigible probably not a genuine 'homeless' anyway so shouldn't be on the Island - return from whence you came. Biggoted, narrow minded and uncharitable it might be but take a straw poll among passengers on the Onchan omnibus and I'll bet a majority would agree with at least one of the above. There is no excuse for being 'homeless' on this Island; temporarily perhaps, but not long term. There are many excuses. Firstly, the Isle of Man imprisons more people per population than almost every country in the world and prison sentences lead to the loss of jobs and housing and do a hell of a lot more harm than they prevent. Secondly, the Isle of Man has an enormous alcohol and hard drugs problem which is compounded by the prison sentences which are handed to addicts instead of medical help. "Let's jail the smack users because that'll stop them!". Thirdly just because there are more jobs available than unemployed doesn't mean the unemployed are suitable for those jobs. The majority of those jobs are working for financial companies which have very specific requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaky Dolores Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Happy New Year so let's kick off with a completely unseasonably uncharitable and contentious post: A. circa 600 unemployed on the Island - in excess of 1000 jobs available - so get a job = buy food and pay rent! I was in the job centre a lot in 2006, looking for a permanent job. Of those 1000s of jobs available (a slight overstatement?), about 60% required a high level of prior training, e.g. civil engineer, plumber, nurse, etc. etc. I'm guessing that the 600 unemployed don't have those qualifications, or they'd be working. The remainder of jobs were adverts from the temping agencies or part time cleaning jobs. Ever tried supporting a family on a part time cleaner's salary? I was really excited when I first moved back over here, thinking that I'd have my pick of these "thousands of jobs". I've got a good degree and a good work record and it took me three months to even get a temp job. Let's stop spreading myths about the Isle of Man being the land of milk and honey in terms of the job market. There's money to be made by highly qualified people from across but as for the rest of the population and the 600 unemployed, it's no better than anywhere else. Happy Christmas SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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