Dudley Butt Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I know it's not traditional here to let facts stand in the way of a Government Cock-up or Conspiracy theory, but here goes.... Firstly, the public will not be charged, and cannot be charged for using the Middle River Civic Amenity Site next month. You are already paying for it through your rates. The history of this is that Tel's were the operators of the old site at Snugborough, which was run by a committee of local authorities of Douglas, Onchan and Braddan. DOLGE built the new site at Middle River, which was ready for occupation in December 2005, and the operation moved to there, a much better site. The Douglas-Onchan-Braddan committee had three principal tasks - to facilitate the move to Middle River; to reach an agreement between themselves and Santon, Laxey and Lonan to set up a committee to run the site; and finally to put the operation of the new site out to tender. This was to be done by the 31st March 2006. For reasons I cannot go into here, the local authorities could not come to an agreement, and the operation of the new site was not re-tendered by 31st March 2006. I then spent several months negotiating between the authorities trying to get a compromise, without success. By the summer of 2006, it was decided that DOLGE would take over the running of the site - which they owned. We put out tender documents for operators to run the site and eventually five entities tendered, including Tel's Limited. The full tender process was gone through - and the tenderer to come up with the most cost effective tender, and the best operational plan - in other words, the best value for money for the ratepayers - was Douglas Corporation, and they were awarded the contract, to start 1st January 2007. Contrary to what you may have heard elsewhere, that process was fair and above board, and I know, because I took part in the process. And when I finished, I got someone independent to review what we had decided. An ongoing legal dispute between Tel's and Douglas/Braddan/Onchan prevented the Corporation taking over the site in January 2007. At that time we, (DOLGE) had served Tel's with notice to quit our site, and one of the authorities had served notice to end the contract. Eventually, to avoid any legal doubt, the three authorities jointly served Tel's with a notice in July this year, giving them six months notice to the termination of the contract. Tel's have known for well over a year that they do not have the contract to run the site. When the site is up and running, with Douglas Corporation as the operators, - finally - the site will be used as it should be. The big green recycling shed, which has not been used for recycling, unlike those at Peel and Port St Mary, will be open. That is good news. And fits in with the policy of Reduce, Reuse and Recycle. Someone mentioned the weighbridge - that will finally be used. At the moment we know what arrives at the incinerator, but we have no idea what leaves the site, which is not good audit procedure. To be fair to Tel's, their contract for the old Snugborough site did not include operating a recycling shed, or using a weighbridge, and that is why it was imperative that a new contract to operate the much larger and better site was needed. Sorry to intrude in the Christmas fun, but it is important not to let scare stories spoil Christmas. We should leave that to the likes of M.R. James.... All the Best to you all, Dudley Butt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Does this mean that the revolution is cancelled then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Facts, meh. Thanks for that Dudley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 A nice Butt rebutal from the operators would be nice now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I think someone better tell Tel's this information. It'll be interesting to see what happens come January...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 In the olden days someone would have taken up an account for M.R. James and written a good old story set in the quiet seaside town of Onchlas. The hero being a funny little bloke called David who discovers the ghost of landfill past somewhere near the Hill of Richmond, and wreaks wrath on the unworthy wanton wasters that built an incinerator on an old landfill site. etc edited to add: Manx Radio Report but mentions nothing of M.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 The operators of the Eastern Civic Amenity Site are being taken to court by the Department of Local Government. The Department is claiming possession of the land at Middle River, Pulrose, from Tel's Ltd and damages for trespass. Douglas Corporation, Braddan Parish Commissioners and the Onchan Commissioners are also named as third parties in the summons through their contractual agreements made when the local authorities acted as a joint committee. The matter, which will be heard in the Common Law Division of the High Court, revolves around a dispute over the legality of contracts to operate the site. DOLGE claims the contract awarded to Tel's Ltd only extended to the 31st of March 2006, the company has chosen to defend the action. The court action follows the recent announcement Douglas Corporation had been chosen as the site operator. this from MR 7 March 2007, was any judgement found in this case yet i wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I know it's not traditional here to let facts stand in the way of a Government Cock-up or Conspiracy theory, but here goes.... Firstly, the public will not be charged, and cannot be charged for using the Middle River Civic Amenity Site next month. You are already paying for it through your rates. The history of this is that Tel's were the operators of the old site at Snugborough, which was run by a committee of local authorities of Douglas, Onchan and Braddan. DOLGE built the new site at Middle River, which was ready for occupation in December 2005, and the operation moved to there, a much better site. The Douglas-Onchan-Braddan committee had three principal tasks - to facilitate the move to Middle River; to reach an agreement between themselves and Santon, Laxey and Lonan to set up a committee to run the site; and finally to put the operation of the new site out to tender. This was to be done by the 31st March 2006. For reasons I cannot go into here, the local authorities could not come to an agreement, and the operation of the new site was not re-tendered by 31st March 2006. I then spent several months negotiating between the authorities trying to get a compromise, without success. By the summer of 2006, it was decided that DOLGE would take over the running of the site - which they owned. We put out tender documents for operators to run the site and eventually five entities tendered, including Tel's Limited. The full tender process was gone through - and the tenderer to come up with the most cost effective tender, and the best operational plan - in other words, the best value for money for the ratepayers - was Douglas Corporation, and they were awarded the contract, to start 1st January 2007. Contrary to what you may have heard elsewhere, that process was fair and above board, and I know, because I took part in the process. And when I finished, I got someone independent to review what we had decided. An ongoing legal dispute between Tel's and Douglas/Braddan/Onchan prevented the Corporation taking over the site in January 2007. At that time we, (DOLGE) had served Tel's with notice to quit our site, and one of the authorities had served notice to end the contract. Eventually, to avoid any legal doubt, the three authorities jointly served Tel's with a notice in July this year, giving them six months notice to the termination of the contract. Tel's have known for well over a year that they do not have the contract to run the site. When the site is up and running, with Douglas Corporation as the operators, - finally - the site will be used as it should be. The big green recycling shed, which has not been used for recycling, unlike those at Peel and Port St Mary, will be open. That is good news. And fits in with the policy of Reduce, Reuse and Recycle. Someone mentioned the weighbridge - that will finally be used. At the moment we know what arrives at the incinerator, but we have no idea what leaves the site, which is not good audit procedure. To be fair to Tel's, their contract for the old Snugborough site did not include operating a recycling shed, or using a weighbridge, and that is why it was imperative that a new contract to operate the much larger and better site was needed. Sorry to intrude in the Christmas fun, but it is important not to let scare stories spoil Christmas. We should leave that to the likes of M.R. James.... All the Best to you all, Dudley Butt Where does that leave the Santon,Laxey and Lonan part of the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 I know it's not traditional here to let facts stand in the way of a Government Cock-up or Conspiracy theory, but here goes.... Firstly, the public will not be charged, and cannot be charged for using the Middle River Civic Amenity Site next month. You are already paying for it through your rates. The history of this is that Tel's were the operators of the old site at Snugborough, which was run by a committee of local authorities of Douglas, Onchan and Braddan. DOLGE built the new site at Middle River, which was ready for occupation in December 2005, and the operation moved to there, a much better site. The Douglas-Onchan-Braddan committee had three principal tasks - to facilitate the move to Middle River; to reach an agreement between themselves and Santon, Laxey and Lonan to set up a committee to run the site; and finally to put the operation of the new site out to tender. This was to be done by the 31st March 2006. For reasons I cannot go into here, the local authorities could not come to an agreement, and the operation of the new site was not re-tendered by 31st March 2006. I then spent several months negotiating between the authorities trying to get a compromise, without success. By the summer of 2006, it was decided that DOLGE would take over the running of the site - which they owned. We put out tender documents for operators to run the site and eventually five entities tendered, including Tel's Limited. The full tender process was gone through - and the tenderer to come up with the most cost effective tender, and the best operational plan - in other words, the best value for money for the ratepayers - was Douglas Corporation, and they were awarded the contract, to start 1st January 2007. Contrary to what you may have heard elsewhere, that process was fair and above board, and I know, because I took part in the process. And when I finished, I got someone independent to review what we had decided. An ongoing legal dispute between Tel's and Douglas/Braddan/Onchan prevented the Corporation taking over the site in January 2007. At that time we, (DOLGE) had served Tel's with notice to quit our site, and one of the authorities had served notice to end the contract. Eventually, to avoid any legal doubt, the three authorities jointly served Tel's with a notice in July this year, giving them six months notice to the termination of the contract. Tel's have known for well over a year that they do not have the contract to run the site. When the site is up and running, with Douglas Corporation as the operators, - finally - the site will be used as it should be. The big green recycling shed, which has not been used for recycling, unlike those at Peel and Port St Mary, will be open. That is good news. And fits in with the policy of Reduce, Reuse and Recycle. Someone mentioned the weighbridge - that will finally be used. At the moment we know what arrives at the incinerator, but we have no idea what leaves the site, which is not good audit procedure. To be fair to Tel's, their contract for the old Snugborough site did not include operating a recycling shed, or using a weighbridge, and that is why it was imperative that a new contract to operate the much larger and better site was needed. Sorry to intrude in the Christmas fun, but it is important not to let scare stories spoil Christmas. We should leave that to the likes of M.R. James.... All the Best to you all, Dudley Butt So the notice issued by Tel's is their way of ascerting rights as occupiers of the site, whether that occupation be legal or otherwise? What happens then if Tel's try and gather the fees that they say they will impose? Or will the situation be resolved by the 11th and the rate paying public of the Eastern Civic Amenity catchment area be free to dispose of their waste without hindrance or threat of charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 will the situation be resolved by the 11th and the rate paying public of the Eastern Civic Amenity catchment area be free to dispose of their waste without hindrance or threat of charge? According to the Manx Radio item which was linked to in an earlier post: the contract with Tel's Limited expires on January 10, and four days later the site will reopen with the Corporation as the new contractor There was also this report on the Manx radio website. Rate payers in the east of the Island are being told there is no question of them facing a new charge to dispose of waste at the Eastern District Civic Amenity Site, at Middle River. Douglas Councillor David Christian says .... the Corporation will be taking over operation of the facility from January 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Hmm, its all begining to smell of fish [maybe its Devereau's skip?] Operator has contract with commisioners / council committee Dolge, owners of the site award operation of site to DC, a member of the committee who used to award operation rights. Dolge tell operators to get out but operators say no, contract is with the committee not Dolge Dolge gets comittee to terminate contract so as to award contract to committee member Operator disputes legality of termination, hence Court Case. Like i said before, music hall is not dead! Guess who will be most inconvenienced by this game of chicken and guess who will end up giving lawyers a stack of money to resove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I'll be turning up on the 11th with a car full of shite, and the Police HQ phone number pre-programmed on my mobile. If what the government is saying is true if they demand £10 to dump rubbish that is not legal. So we'll see what happens won't we ....... maybe its the only way to prove who is right. I don't know who is right or who is wrong but I know how to test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 do you think there will be a different padlock on the gate before 11th ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Manx Alamo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 The fact that six local authorities could not reach agreement on something as simple as paying for a civic amenity site shows what a waste of time these bodies are We have to be the most overgoverned nation in history and these self serving retirement clubs just add an extra layer of expense, time & beaurocracy to the already clumsy operation of the Island's services We should abolish all these "local" authorities, sell off their offices & town halls and bring all these services under "central" (local really) government control Refuse & recycling to DOLGE Parks & gardens to DAFF Horse Trams to MNH Housing should be run by a a specific Island Housing Authority Remember that the Corpy used to run the buses, the power station, maintain all Douglas roads & streets and operate the Villa, Summerland and Port Soderick, yet since losing responsibility for those operations it has expanded into the old library to give itself more space to do less work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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