A Necessary Education?

[Lonan3]

TIMES ARTICLE LINK

 

Brighton College, founded in 1845, is introducing a course on etiquette to teach its 700 pupils how to behave when they face formal situations in later life.

Besides being taught how to dance and conduct themselves at dinner parties, boys will be shown how to iron shirts and girls how to apply make-up.

Richard Cairns, the headmaster, said yesterday: “Good manners and etiquette at formal dinners is a deal-breaker in the business world. It is as important as exam grades or degrees.”

Each Thursday pupils will be sent invitations to dine at Mr Cairns’s house, where they will be taught when and when not to take off their jacket, how to use the right cutlery, how to deal with food they do not like and how to talk to fellow guests.

“A report was published not long ago saying that employers were put off by the number of undergraduates not equipped for the business world,” Mr Cairns added.

“They do not know they cannot just take their jacket off as soon as they sit down, and they cannot get up to go to the loo whenever. They do not know they should break bread, not cut it, and they should talk to people on their left during the first course and on their right during the main course.”

It was natural to focus on one person who was interesting or easy to talk to, but that would not go down well at business, or even personal, dinners, Mr Cairns said.

 

Most of these things were taught to my generation as a matter of course and, although some of them may be irrelevant nowadays, my opinion is that they're useful accomplishments (unless you only eat at McD's!).

Any other views?

[bluemonday]

Most of these things were taught to my generation as a matter of course

And mine - fond memories of Great Gran at Peel teaching me the right way to deal with soup.

I think it's a very good idea. Some people at a table resemble chimps - no insult intended to chimps.

As for ironing, I can't stand men of any age who can't deal that and similar matters or think it's beneath them or it's "womens work"

Pathetic Neanderthal Leftovers.

[mollag]

We were very working class but could lay a table at 6 years old, manners were adjusted as we made mistakes and courtesy was expected at all times but never actually achieved.

 

School taught none of these "skills" it did teach me that grown men seemed to like beating chidren with sticks and slippers etc.

[triskelion]

They do not know they should break bread, not cut it

 

"Truly, our ignorance is the source of all the World's ills"

 

EDIT: Added speech marks. Felt right.

[Alias]

What utter balderdash

[Sneaky Dolores]

TIMES ARTICLE LINK

 

They do not know they should break bread, not cut it, and they should talk to people on their left during the first course and on their right during the main course.”

It was natural to focus on one person who was interesting or easy to talk to, but that would not go down well at business, or even personal, dinners, Mr Cairns said.

 

That sounds like a flippin mad rule!

[Pat Ayres]

I've never cut my bread, always tear it to pieces. I talk to everyone and wait for them to stop before I reply, being left handed I use my cutlery in the most comfortable hand, so as not to flick peas everywhere with the knife.

My parents were; a lorry driver and a cleaner, I have 7 siblings. I went to a proper school.

This is the same kind of unnecessary middle class bollocks I have witnessed and sneared at all my life, from a high position at times.

He is a snob and a fool if he thinks what you do at the office or dinner dictates how you should be thought of.

Fascism at it's most raw.

Something like the reason why the church discouraged reading and writing in the middle ages, to keep the power where they believed it belongs.

I personally would not like to have dinner at his 'house', (actually a tied cottage in Kemp Town East Brighton)

[Mission]

[Gladys]

Etiquette is much broader than just table manners, it is knowing how to conduct yourself in a social setting. As always, if there are rules and you know them, then you are going to feel more comfortable and relaxed.

 

I have to say, my father was a real stickler for basic table manners; how to hold a knife, to break the bread not cut it, asking for something to be passed rather than leaning over, how to leave your napkin at the end of the meal and how to finish your soup. Something to do with his (Irish?!) public schooling, I guess.

 

All well and good, as I think I can muddle along with any company with table manners that (hopefully) will not let me down in front of those who care about these things.

 

But as for the more arcane manners like talking to your left during the first course, then your right during the second, and which way to pass the port, are just beyond me.

 

However, it is interesting how these manners came into being and that most do serve a more practical purpose than being a ploy to trip up the unwary. For example, it is bad manners in the US to continue to hold your knife after cutting your food. It should be placed back on the plate as not to do so would mean you were effectively 'armed' and a potential threat throughout the meal. Something to do with the frontier days when the knife used was a serious item, not just a dinner implement. May even be from earlier days when the knife used at the table was the dagger from the belt.

[Sneaky Dolores]

However, it is interesting how these manners came into being and that most do serve a more practical purpose than being a ploy to trip up the unwary. For example, it is bad manners in the US to continue to hold your knife after cutting your food. It should be placed back on the plate as not to do so would mean you were effectively 'armed' and a potential threat throughout the meal. Something to do with the frontier days when the knife used was a serious item, not just a dinner implement. May even be from earlier days when the knife used at the table was the dagger from the belt.

 

Yeah, an american ex of mine was continually offended by the way that brits wouldn't put their knives down while they ate. According to him, you had to do "fork swapping", where you cut up the food with the knife in your right hand and the fork in your left and then put the knife down and swap the fork to your right hand to eat. Bleeding nora. He didn't last long in the UK.

[Pat Ayres]

It's all little codes for recognising fellow travellers, how you wear your tie, shake hands or spell certain words.

Masonic rituals and secret societies, the stuff business is made up of by public school fascists.

Don't buy into it, it's a con and an abuse of everything that is fair and just.

One of the most blatant things I see nowadays is the little fishy sign on the back of cars. Even worse is that sign on trade vehicles, builders, plumbers. An obvious attempt to get an advantage by pandering to peoples group instincts. I wonder how many are actually christian. I won't use anybody with that on their van or use any shop with it in the window.

[mollag]

I did read years ago that the symbol comes from pagan times ie the matriarchal cults, It was written that it is in fact a vaginal symbol , as opposed to a phallic

Wonder how many holy rollers know whats in their rear window

[bluemonday]

One of the most blatant things I see nowadays is the little fishy sign on the back of cars. Even worse is that sign on trade vehicles, builders, plumbers. An obvious attempt to get an advantage by pandering to peoples group instincts. I wonder how many are actually christian. I won't use anybody with that on their van or use any shop with it in the window.

 

( surely ) FORUM COMPETITION!!!!!!!!

 

Little fishy spotting...........

[Minxie]

Although some etiquette is out of date, general manners and courtesy are still very important.

[alph3]

Although some etiquette is out of date, general manners and courtesy are still very important.

 

Agreed!!! I know nothing of etiquette but a little manners and courtesy more than account for it IMHO. It's what I try and pass on to the wee fella when I can get his attention. Bullshit about only talking to the person on your left during first course and so on is exactly that - bullshit!

 

BTW - Whats this 'little fishy sign' stuff all about? I don't get it.