Dodger Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Please note that you will not be able to apply for an ID card until 2009. Furthermore, until 1 January 2010, people will be given an option to choose not to be issued with an ID card when they receive their passport, although their details will be entered on the National Identity Register (NIR).' = compulsory ID cards from 1 January 2010. Pure spin! Compulsary for people applying for a passport, not compulsary for everyone. AI, you are wrong, the term compulsary means everyone, you don't get to opt out! The other point is that the ID card will cost more than the passport and you will still need the passport to travel outside the European Union! Why do we need this duplication?! We give out our personal details all to frequently and without thought to the consequences. We tell our children not to give out personal data online for protection and yet we give out this same information readily for minor things like store loyalty cards, discount cards and warranties etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Compulsary for people applying for a passport, not compulsary for everyone. Why the heck should I be refused a passport because I don't want an ID card??? Where's my freedom gone??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staaue Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Me personally, I don't have an overly big problem with gov't having my details, this is regulated and used in a much proper fashion, unfortunately, we do get cock ups and that's life. Sometimes we have to give our details for passports, NI, driving licenses etc. My landlord needs my details for lots of reasons. The data protection act states that basically if you hold manual or automated data about an individual, it must be used for the purposes it was collected; and it must be adequately protected. Also, any data that is not required for the purpose it was collected, must be deleted and disposed off. The problem I have and what started this thread, was the organizations who underhandedly take your details and sell them without your consent or knowledge; which in my book is stealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 I may be wrong but is the phonebook not protected by copywrite and does it not have the wording of not for re production printed in the book. If not you would not have a market for selling on personal details as they would be free from the phonebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Compulsary for people applying for a passport, not compulsary for everyone. So, by default, you cannot get a new passport if you refuse an ID card Again, I ask the question. Why should I be refused a passport because I don't want an ID card? Can anyone give just one good reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Because eventually the ID card will negate the need to submit your birth certificate and photo-signed-by-your-doctor when applying for a passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Because eventually the ID card will negate the need to submit your birth certificate and photo-signed-by-your-doctor when applying for a passport? I don't think that's the answer he is looking for. You have given a 'slippery slope' response, which is a fallacy, where you seem to be automatically assuming that passport issue must inevitably follow from ID cards - without any argument for the 'inevitability' of ID cards in the first place - which is his point I believe (i.e. why shouldn't I be able to get a passport without 'volunteering' for an ID card?). Gordon Broon would be proud of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 ....... although their details will be entered on the National Identity Register (NIR).' So the central database is going to happen whether we like it or not. This being the case you are better off having the ID card so you can try to protect yourself against the corrupt government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Compulsary for people applying for a passport, not compulsary for everyone. So, by default, you cannot get a new passport if you refuse an ID card Again, I ask the question. Why should I be refused a passport because I don't want an ID card? Can anyone give just one good reason? Wasn't getting into that discussion, was just disagreeing that the current proposed cards are not compulsary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Compulsary for people applying for a passport, not compulsary for everyone. Compulsary for people applying for a passport, not compulsary for everyone. So, by default, you cannot get a new passport if you refuse an ID card Again, I ask the question. Why should I be refused a passport because I don't want an ID card? Can anyone give just one good reason? Wasn't getting into that discussion, was just disagreeing that the current proposed cards are not compulsary. This is NuShite speak for the government's new voluntary system - where you can voluntarily comply, or voluntarily be punished and never leave these shores again. The choice is yours. Interrogations for first time passport applicants started here in December, which is not likely to happen until 2009 in the UK as I understand it. We are already 'ahead' of the game, which leads me to believe that the Manx government will cut and paste this legislation with the same vigour as NuShite, and blindly hand over all our data to the UK and other governments without so much as a whimper. Old Winston will be turning in his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Wasn't getting into that discussion, was just disagreeing that the current proposed cards are not compulsary. ai_Droid, Do you agree that not being allowed to renew your passport because you don't want an ID card is wrong and is a removal of a fundamental liberty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Gawd, I see Albert is still trotting out all the catchphrases and buzzwords like the good little sheep that he is. Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 ai_Droid, Do you agree that not being allowed to renew your passport because you don't want an ID card is wrong and is a removal of a fundamental liberty? No, they don't appear to collect much more information than a passport anyway. I see them as pointless if they're not compulsary for all, regardless of passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Gawd, I see Albert is still trotting out all the catchphrases and buzzwords like the good little sheep that he is. Bless. If I've got you rattled, that encourages me. Four legs good, two legs baaad! Four legs good, two legs baaad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm not rattled, I just think it's amusing that you berate people for towing a certain line, while doling out phrases other people have told you to use. I don't bother with these discussions any more because it's a waste of time debating with someone so close minded. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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