Horse Trams

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I am a Douglas rate payer via my business premises although not my residential.

 

I have long believed that the Horse Trams should really be a central Government cost rather than a local authority cost, as if to continue/required they are part of the Islands overall tourist image/package. Whether or not they are worth the cost is another matter, but like the railways which are a cost born by the tax payers thet are a part of what slightly differentiates the Island. To be honest I am not that fussed either wat but I would miss hem if they went

 

I actually have more concern about the costs of the golf club which I believe are similar. Why do we need a local authority run and subsidised golf course? It is not as if we are short of places to play golf at on the IoM. If that went I have to adnit it would not bother me at all. Equally the costs of maintaining Nobles park seem astronomic, considering really all there is there are a few pitches and a kids play area. For I think £500,000 a year or so we should expect slightly better facilities up there than we get

[triskelion]

About two years ago now, when there still looked to be a possibility of the Summerland site being used in the foreseeable future, I wrote to the Dtl suggesting that an electric tram infrastructure might be worth considering, as it would negate the need for onsite parking (Chester Street could be used) and would provide all-weather pedestrian access along the prom. This would have essentially been an extension of the MER to the Sea Terminal, though operated with more modern rolling stock.

 

As a sort-of compromise, I suggested the horse trams only be run during the summer between 10 and 4. This not just so they do not increase congestion, but because I cannot see riding it during the busiest times of the day as being all that pleasant. Though to be honest, I don't really buy into the idea that it is a tourist attraction. Fair enough it is part of the Island's heritage, but I can't feel that it would be just as good to have one tram in the Museum with a couple of fake horses hitched to the front. There wouldn't be the shit on the prom either (I wonder if the police have ever thought to charge them with defouling the road?)

 

The single track idea is one option I suppose, but why not just only use one at the moment and save digging up the prom?

[Albert Tatlock]

The single track idea is one option I suppose, but why not just only use one at the moment and save digging up the prom?

I was working on the assumption you would need an equi-distance between both sides of the pavement. The track would have to be inspected, but I suppose it would be possible on some legs to switch from one side to the other existing track depending which side has the traffic problem. You'd still need to rip up the left over track as it would cause major confusion e.g. you won't know which track the horse tram heading toward you was going to use, and I think they would need to paint white lines either side of the track so everyone knew where it ran.

[localyokel]

Shoot the buggers. Shit dropping, rate-wasting, granny-conveying wastes of space.

 

Douglas ratepayers want their heads testing for funding them, but out of taxpayers funds. No way.

 

Look at the stuff that is taxpayer funded. They said on Manx radio that 80,000 people used the electric trams last year. 80,000 people at a £5 each is £400,000. They are spending £5m on new track. I don't see why anyone should be clapping each other on the back about losing £4,600,000 to run the electric trams. Lets just piss more away on the horses.

[laughing-manxie]

Why dont you just use the trams, they are a great way to travel, only problem with them is they dont really go anywhere if there was a way of getting up summerhill and blackberry lane without walking then lots more people from Dandaraville and Onchan would use them in the summer. Now summerland has gone it just ends at a pub. We need Summerland there again to make them work.

[localyokel]

if there was a way of getting up summerhill and blackberry lane without walking then lots more people from Dandaraville and Onchan would use them in the summer.

 

What. One horse pulling 30 people up Summerhill and Blackberry Lane. Are you mental?

 

Plus Dandaraville have no money to spend on fripperies anyway. They're wanking off to Sky every night and saving up for that one pint after pay day before the mortgage is due.

[triskelion]

Look at the stuff that is taxpayer funded. They said on Manx radio that 80,000 people used the electric trams last year. 80,000 people at a £5 each is £400,000. They are spending £5m on new track. I don't see why anyone should be clapping each other on the back about losing £4,600,000 to run the electric trams.

That's really only a valid argument if the track needs to be replaced every year, which it obviously doesn't. I think we can expect the track to last more than twelve and a half years.

[lectro]

Why dont you just use the trams, they are a great way to travel, only problem with them is they dont really go anywhere

 

Other problems...

 

too expensive, too slow, too..... etc etc

 

If nostalgia is the only reason to keep them then I suggest we let them go the way of the dodo.

[Mij]

The original article said a loss of £270k, but what was the total turnover? Until we are clear on that it is hard to judge what action is most appropriate. Frustratingly the article doesn't tell us (unless I've missed something). If the trams took, say, £500k in fares and made a loss on that of £270k, then they are in serious trouble. But if, say, a loss of £270k was part of a total income from fares of, say, £10 million, then a slight change in fares and schedules would be all that would be necessary.

 

Personally I love the trams when I visit the island with my family every year, and we always make a point of having a jaunt along the prom on them. It would be so sad to see them go, but I can understand how they might infuriate drivers and ratepayers.

[molly]

500k taken in fares? i would be suprised if they took 50k.

[localyokel]

500k taken in fares? i would be suprised if they took 50k.

 

Its easy to work out.

 

The manx radio report said that 79,000 people had made a journey by Electric Tram and 105,000 travelled on the Steam Train.

 

Ignoring one way journeys, season tickets, childrens fares, school trips etc if you assume every person paid a minimum of £10 for a return trip by tram or train that is a maximum of £1,840,000 you could possibly raise in a year. In reality there will be season ticket buyers, childrens fares and other discount rates that would probably discount that amount hugely. I bet the stats only cover tickets sold ignoring whether they were retuurns or not, and I don't think a return fare is as high as a tenner but lets say this is a fair basis.

 

So that is an absolute maximum unless they can run the whole network for £1,500,000 a year (wages, maintenence, track repairs, fuel, heating, lighting etc) its got to be losing buckets.

[molly]

500k taken in fares? i would be suprised if they took 50k.

 

Its easy to work out.

 

The manx radio report said that 79,000 people had made a journey by Electric Tram and 105,000 travelled on the Steam Train.

 

Ignoring one way journeys, season tickets, childrens fares, school trips etc if you assume every person paid a minimum of £10 for a return trip by tram or train that is a maximum of £1,840,000 you could possibly raise in a year. In reality there will be season ticket buyers, childrens fares and other discount rates that would probably discount that amount hugely. I bet the stats only cover tickets sold ignoring whether they were retuurns or not, and I don't think a return fare is as high as a tenner but lets say this is a fair basis.

 

So that is an absolute maximum unless they can run the whole network for £1,500,000 a year (wages, maintenence, track repairs, fuel, heating, lighting etc) its got to be losing buckets.

Are we not talking about the horse trams?

[gilf_uk]

I would rather have spent the £250,000 odd on the limited guarantee for the peel bay festival. At least that would be a growing venture and encourage tourism to the island and be a great event for people on the Island.

 

But alas, the powers that be still believe a horse-drawn cart from a derelict building site to a roundabout at the other end is a better use of cash and be a great thing for tourism.

[lectro]

I would rather have spent the £250,000 odd on the limited guarantee for the peel bay festival. At least that would be a growing venture and encourage tourism to the island and be a great event for people on the Island.

 

But alas, the powers that be still believe a horse-drawn cart from a derelict building site to a roundabout at the other end is a better use of cash and be a great thing for tourism.

 

How to jump from one loss making enterprise to another in one easy step...

[localyokel]

500k taken in fares? i would be suprised if they took 50k.

 

Its easy to work out.

 

The manx radio report said that 79,000 people had made a journey by Electric Tram and 105,000 travelled on the Steam Train.

 

Ignoring one way journeys, season tickets, childrens fares, school trips etc if you assume every person paid a minimum of £10 for a return trip by tram or train that is a maximum of £1,840,000 you could possibly raise in a year. In reality there will be season ticket buyers, childrens fares and other discount rates that would probably discount that amount hugely. I bet the stats only cover tickets sold ignoring whether they were retuurns or not, and I don't think a return fare is as high as a tenner but lets say this is a fair basis.

 

So that is an absolute maximum unless they can run the whole network for £1,500,000 a year (wages, maintenence, track repairs, fuel, heating, lighting etc) its got to be losing buckets.

Are we not talking about the horse trams?

 

You're right. I'm getting confused by other loss making wastes of money.

 

I'd actually be surprised if they took £30k on the trams all season.