Horse Trams

[monasqueen]

Halve the tracks, halve the journeys, mothball some of the trams for use on a cyclic basis, reduce the number of employees (and livestock) - and I would suggest there is substantial potential for savings, whilst maintaining the service and improving traffic flow. At the very least I think it should be assessed as an option.

 

If you cut the number of trips, no-one will ride on the trams. People will hang around for one to come along only for so long - if people can see a tram coming, there will be more temptation to use it.

 

Cutting the tracks to one would be very expensive in the short term. You would also need passing loops, and that relies on horses all running at the same speed, which they don't.

 

I say, start them up at 8 in the morning. Get commuters to use them rather than clog up the Prom with their cars. Paint the margins with a white line so stupid motorists who don't use their rear view mirrors and can't see a horse coming up behind them stop outside the running lines rather than within them.

 

For health and safety, the conductors must be kept - the drivers cannot keep their eyes on what the passengers are doing.

 

And get the losses made up by government - why should Douglas ratepayers have to pay all the costs of this tourist icon?

[keyboarder]

Get commuters to use them rather than clog up the Prom with their cars.

They could put small children on them on their way to sweep chimneys.

And get the losses made up by government - why should Douglas ratepayers have to pay all the costs of this tourist icon?

They shouldn't. And don't.

[Albert Tatlock]

Halve the tracks, halve the journeys, mothball some of the trams for use on a cyclic basis, reduce the number of employees (and livestock) - and I would suggest there is substantial potential for savings, whilst maintaining the service and improving traffic flow. At the very least I think it should be assessed as an option.

 

If you cut the number of trips, no-one will ride on the trams. People will hang around for one to come along only for so long - if people can see a tram coming, there will be more temptation to use it.

 

Cutting the tracks to one would be very expensive in the short term. You would also need passing loops, and that relies on horses all running at the same speed, which they don't.

 

I say, start them up at 8 in the morning. Get commuters to use them rather than clog up the Prom with their cars. Paint the margins with a white line so stupid motorists who don't use their rear view mirrors and can't see a horse coming up behind them stop outside the running lines rather than within them.

Commuters from where? Local people just don't bother as it is far too much hassle.

 

By going down to one track, I mean one horse tram in any direction at any one time - otherwise the costs won't be able to be reduced. So no need for passing loops or complications etc. The idea would be that, in reducing costs, you would try and maximise the number of people travelling on any one tram, and with that needs to come much clearer and rigid timetables, and better advertising.

 

The most you should have to wait for a horse tram would be 1 hour - on the assumption you had just missed one. When I have waited for a tram in the past I have noticed that the timetables mean little as the day goes on, so these need to be more rigidly enforced, and whilst relaying a single track it would not take much money to put a simple electronic display on each of the timetable boards on the stops dotted along the prom to give an estimated time when the next tram was going your way at that stop (though rigid timetables should dispel the need for such a system). This could be done using a wifi based system or simplified radio/gps system (which buses in some UK cities use). You would only need one or two of these which could sit next to the driver on the tram in use.

 

There is no shelter at the sea terminal end for people waiting for a tram which might appear typically anywhere between imminently or in half an hour, so many people can't be arsed waiting or get frustrated waiting. Granted there is a pub and a cafe at either end, but people just don't know of they have time for a cuppa or a drink/meal and end up hanging about. People don't like hanging about too long, especially with kids in tow. Much clearer timetables and rigidly enforced timetables will allow people the opportunity to plan a trip and the rest of their day. Such rigid timetabling works well for the MER.

[ai_Droid]

Boot out the old nags and replace it with one of these:

 

[triskelion]

It might be a different story if there was anything to do at the Summerhill end of the Prom, but what is the point of riding it except as an activity in of itself?

 

I guess you could use it to link to the MER, but that's probably one of the main reasons for use at the minute anyway.

[bluemonday]

Good point. It's about time the Summerland issue was looked at.

Emotive I know but it does need considering eventually.

[Max Power]

It might be a different story if there was anything to do at the Summerhill end of the Prom, but what is the point of riding it except as an activity in of itself?

 

I guess you could use it to link to the MER, but that's probably one of the main reasons for use at the minute anyway.

 

There was a plan to link the horse trams through to the steam railway as part of Douglas 2000 as I remember.

[Lost Login]

It might be a different story if there was anything to do at the Summerhill end of the Prom, but what is the point of riding it except as an activity in of itself?

 

I guess you could use it to link to the MER, but that's probably one of the main reasons for use at the minute anyway.

 

It is as you say probably mainly used by visitors, as a trip in itself, however I have seen locals use it as a means of transport. I presume that they have resident tickets.

 

I probably use it a couple of times a year with my family and tends to be on a Saturday when having driven in we will have lunch at the Terminus and then get the tram into town for a bit of shopping. I have also done in midweek during the TT with my kids just cos it is easier to park at that end.

[Lost Login]

By going down to one track, I mean one horse tram in any direction at any one time - otherwise the costs won't be able to be reduced. So no need for passing loops or complications etc. The idea would be that, in reducing costs, you would try and maximise the number of people travelling on any one tram, and with that needs to come much clearer and rigid timetables, and better advertising.

 

Whilst I agree with some of your points about obvious time tabling I think going down to one track is a non starter. Firstly as you seem to envisage digging up and relaying as a single track I think the costs would be prohibitive as I doubt you could resuse what is taken up.

 

Secondly the service you suggest would drive people away. While at time the service is poorly used, mid week out of school holidays with the rain lashing down, as other times, lovely weeked in August you can often see the trams pretty full going along the prom and that is when there are three or four plodding back and forth

 

Unfortunatly I think it is a choice of Trams & hands in pocket or no trams although I would like to see the staff costs looking at as they seem high

[Albert Tatlock]

By going down to one track, I mean one horse tram in any direction at any one time - otherwise the costs won't be able to be reduced. So no need for passing loops or complications etc. The idea would be that, in reducing costs, you would try and maximise the number of people travelling on any one tram, and with that needs to come much clearer and rigid timetables, and better advertising.

 

Whilst I agree with some of your points about obvious time tabling I think going down to one track is a non starter. Firstly as you seem to envisage digging up and relaying as a single track I think the costs would be prohibitive as I doubt you could resuse what is taken up.

As well as costs, there are also major benefits e.g. traffic would be freed up, hundreds more car parking places could be made available along the prom - and businesses along there would benefit as a result - never mind stopping the haemorraging of money in terms of loss.

 

Though you don't need to go to a single track yet to realise savings, I can't see any major problems in digging up the tracks and reusing them (there would be tons of track to spare even if parts of the track were damaged during the process), and I don't see why they could not be lifted out, tested and relaid without major problems. The tracks are not complicated and not deeply laid as far as I am aware - they only act as a guide rail if you look more closely. Also not all of the track might have to be dug up, as there are great lengths e.g. that pass the villa; and from Summerhill Road junction etc. where you could leave the left or right track as the 'central' track. There must be plant that can be rented that would do the job, with tarmac used to fill in the small trenches left where the tracks were taken out. Maybe even utility companies might want to carry out work down there if given the opportunity at the same time. Given the infrequency of the new system, they could also even possibly look to extend the track to cover the new pedestrianised area along the quay somehow, which might encourage more locals to use it on summer evenings.

 

I still think it is worth costing up as a costs/benefits exercise, though it would probably be better done as part of an overall Promenade redesign.

[ourtess]

If they are scrapped then that's it. Gone forever, the last horse trams in the world.

It's things like the trams that will eventually turn the entire Isle of Man into a World Heritage Site.

 

And don't loose the Queen's Pier.

[Mutley]

If they are scrapped then that's it. Gone forever, the last horse trams in the world.

It's things like the trams that will eventually turn the entire Isle of Man into a World Heritage Site.

 

And don't loose the Queen's Pier.

 

Great well we'll all keep working and paying taxes just to keep the past intact. Never mind a modern joined up public transport system or a decent public amenity that could be built and maintained more cheaply and used by more people - let's spend it all on two outdated archaic and overly expensive white elephants that are fuck all use to 99% of people on the island.

 

Isle of Man a World Heritage Site - it'll never ever happen.

[ai_Droid]

There was a plan to link the horse trams through to the steam railway as part of Douglas 2000 as I remember.

 

Tracks could have been laid with the north quay refurb instead of the bloody silly 20 foot pavement outside an electrical substation.

 

Went past there again today, fuck all happening, nobody around, pedestrians or workmen.

 

Love Newsons on they Quay, it's a great antidote to boring UK chain stores. Those old guys in there have proper 'dad' humour, 'enjoy your trousers' he said to me on the way out, superb!

[bluemonday]

Love Newsons on they Quay, it's a great antidote to boring UK chain stores. Those old guys in there have proper 'dad' humour, 'enjoy your trousers' he said to me on the way out, superb!

Agree 100% A great place. I learnt my lesson after Christmas, will always go to Newsons as the first choice. I don't think the great quay remake will have done them any favours though.

[Lonan3]

It's things like the trams that will eventually turn the entire Isle of Man into a World Heritage Site.

 

More likely into a 'living' museum.