An Article That Should Be Read....

[Lonan3]

By every police officer in the British Isles.

 

LINK TO ARTICLE

 

Surveying the wreckage of another family and its surrounding community, Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan, of the Cheshire Constabulary, had no doubt of the way ahead: “I think society is beginning to see the events of today, and the murder of Mr Newlove, as a tipping point where we all have to take action against antisocial behaviour,” he said, sagely.

 

Not all, Garry. You. Specifically you. You, Garry Shewan, and the officers under your command, have to take action against antisocial behaviour because that is your job. We're done. We're finished. They've got us licked. Garry Newlove tried to take action against antisocial behaviour and he was kicked to death outside his home, as his children watched.

 

And do you know why? Because it is absolutely impossible for a rational, civilised human being to confront the perpetrators of such a crime, as there is nothing in the mind of the average individual that allows him to challenge such wickedness and violent relish on equal terms. That is why we need law enforcers, with experience and back-up and a mandate to deal with any incident in the manner they see fit. When Mr Newlove was lying on the floor having his brain toed into grisly submission, his horrified family was not looking for society to come around the corner and save him; they were looking for coppers.

 

There is more, much more, in the same vein; and I'd suggest that it really is worth clicking on the link and reading it.

[3v0]

Good Article.

[triskelion]

He says that police should be much more aggressive in dealing with these kind of people, which may well be the case, but is that what is happening in areas where ASB is not a problem? What I mean is, does ASB occur due to a lack of aggressive tactics by police?

 

I agree with the idea that in problem areas like this, a visible police presence is necessary, as he says: "If Cheshire police had put an officer, or two, on duty in Station Road North, just hanging about, breaking up the gangs, identifying troublemakers and dealing with problems as they occurred"

 

What I don't agree with is the responses to this article placing the blame for this incident on the parents of these scum. They were 19, 17 and 16, by which age, frankly, they are responsible for themselves. It is highly unlikely that the parents brought them up to think violent assualt/murder was acceptable behaviour. There is no excuse for crime, especially one such as this.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

He says that police should be much more aggressive in dealing with these kind of people, which may well be the case, but is that what is happening in areas where ASB is not a problem? What I mean is, does ASB occur due to a lack of aggressive tactics by police?

 

Unlikely. Anti-social behaviour doesn't exist because there are less police about or because the police do not use more violence.

 

From the article:

If Cheshire police had put an officer, or two, on duty in Station Road North, just hanging about, breaking up the gangs, identifying troublemakers and dealing with problems as they occurred, Mr Newlove would still be alive. The access to cheap hooch, the absence of parental control, the failings of modern society are all outweighed by that simple fact.

 

I think the 'failure of modern society' is the crux of the matter.

'Better' policing isn't going to be the answer for ASB because it doesn't remedy the problem of why there is ASB in society but just simply tries to deal with it, the police's role is not to instill respect for others in the community and in society.

[alph3]

'failure of modern society'..........sounds about right!

I'd like to know, where were the rest of Mr. Newlove's neighbours? Peeking out from the corner of their curtains, safe in the knowledge that this was all going on outside and was out of their hands!? From my thinking it would seem that these kidults show signs of pack mentality, viewing themselves as invincible when in the crowd, but I'll bet my life that on their own they're a bunch of pussies. We should be encouraged to look out for our neighbours and not have to fear the consequences of confronting a pack with our very own pack. In the natural world that is how we would have to react when threatened with a bigger group than our own surely. Might is not necesseraly right, but people shouldn't have to live in fear of the local scrotbags!

[bluemonday]

Another point with these feral little shitbags is that they know their rights backward.

They're quite happy to pulp someone en mass but when they get a slap, they start crying and shouting for a lawyer.

If they view normal people as prey, then they deserve whatever if the prey turns on them in bigger numbers.

 

I suppose that's a step towards the vigilante viewpoint but there you go.............

[alph3]

Another point with these feral little shitbags is that they know their rights backward.

They're quite happy to pulp someone en mass but when they get a slap, they start crying and shouting for a lawyer.

If they view normal people as prey, then they deserve whatever if the prey turns on them in bigger numbers.

 

I suppose that's a step towards the vigilante viewpoint but there you go.............

 

Thats a cracking point bluemonday......lawyers have alot to answer for (or rather the 'law-makers')!!!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

quote]

Thats a cracking point bluemonday......lawyers have alot to answer for (or rather the 'law-makers')!!!

 

I think the greater public want answers that relate to how the law will deal with people like this but I personally do not see how the law can solve this problem. The law can only deal with these people by locking them up but this doesn't solve the problem of ASB in society and after being locked up the perpetrators of the crime probably have even less reason to abide by the law in the future.

 

I suppose that's a step towards the vigilante viewpoint but there you go.............

 

Maybe I haven't thought about this enough but I think everyone has the right to defend themselves from violence NO MATTER who that person is, but only in self-defence. Though I think this current argument surrounding self-defence because of the Gary New love murder misses the point because if Mr Newlove believed these people would be violent he would not have gone out to confront them.

[alph3]

A swift kicking should be the order of the day when dealing with these little pricks! Fair enough, it doesn't send out the caring, free society message but what the hell, it'd be great to see some of these little shits get a taste of their own medicine. I think that that should be standard punishment for anyone involved in anti-social behaviour of that scale.

 

Or even better, an eye for an eye!

[Grianane]

the judicious application of a length of 3 by 2 used to do the trick....

[Skig]

I agree with everything that has been said but I’m afraid we are deluding ourselves.

For many decades we have seen our so-called civilised society decay before our eyes.

Every single position of power in our society is filled with some namby pamby do- gooder. Capital punishment was stopped to appease this band of fools. With the onset of DNA etc. the chances of an innocent person being hanged is almost nil, and provided no one could be convicted on DNA alone, it would be the answer to a lot of our problems.

Firstly we need to empty our prison of the thousands of foreigners and send them home now, not after we have kept them in prison at our expense. If the law says we cant do this then the lawmakers should change the law.

Knife carrying crimes should be punished by a prison sentence.

Crimes committed by scum carrying firearms should carry the death penalty.

Oh no! You cant do that! Why not I ask.

Never a day goes by without the report of a stabbing or shooting. All the ASBO’s and other slaps on the wrist do nothing and total anarchy is not to far away.

[fartypants]

All the ASBO’s and other slaps on the wrist do nothing and total anarchy is not to far away.

 

Very well said!!

[alph3]

I agree with everything that has been said but I’m afraid we are deluding ourselves.

For many decades we have seen our so-called civilised society decay before our eyes.

Every single position of power in our society is filled with some namby pamby do- gooder. Capital punishment was stopped to appease this band of fools. With the onset of DNA etc. the chances of an innocent person being hanged is almost nil, and provided no one could be convicted on DNA alone, it would be the answer to a lot of our problems.

Firstly we need to empty our prison of the thousands of foreigners and send them home now, not after we have kept them in prison at our expense. If the law says we cant do this then the lawmakers should change the law.

Knife carrying crimes should be punished by a prison sentence.

Crimes committed by scum carrying firearms should carry the death penalty.

Oh no! You cant do that! Why not I ask.

Never a day goes by without the report of a stabbing or shooting. All the ASBO’s and other slaps on the wrist do nothing and total anarchy is not to far away.

 

 

Think yer on to something there Skig, but how to convince the political correctness lobby's that seem to have the powers that be by the short and curlies?!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I agree with everything that has been said but I’m afraid we are deluding ourselves.

For many decades we have seen our so-called civilised society decay before our eyes.

Every single position of power in our society is filled with some namby pamby do- gooder. Capital punishment was stopped to appease this band of fools. With the onset of DNA etc. the chances of an innocent person being hanged is almost nil, and provided no one could be convicted on DNA alone, it would be the answer to a lot of our problems.

Firstly we need to empty our prison of the thousands of foreigners and send them home now, not after we have kept them in prison at our expense. If the law says we cant do this then the lawmakers should change the law.

Knife carrying crimes should be punished by a prison sentence.

Crimes committed by scum carrying firearms should carry the death penalty.

Oh no! You cant do that! Why not I ask.

Never a day goes by without the report of a stabbing or shooting.

 

Why not you ask? Because it is you who is deluding themself and this is a ridiculous argument.

 

 

Capital punishment is not an effective deterrent and isn't going to be the answer to society's problems. It is as if you think there hanging all current murdered is going to stop future murders. No it won't. Why would it? I think capital punishment is simply about revenge. If it was so effective then why does its existence in many countries not deter people from committing such crimes. It is not about namby pamby do-gooders, the decision to stop capital punishment was made with good sense. I don't think the killers of Gary Newlove deserve to die. I do not believe they have absolutely nothing to contribute to society if they can be rehabilitated, although I doubt the prison system will manage this. I am of the opinion that it is far more useful to understand what is happening in society. Understanding why young people have such complete and harbour so much anger and trying to remedy that is better than a system that punishes after the deed is done and does actually prevent these crimes happening in the future.

 

But also capital punishment, if introduced, could only be acceptable in cases where someone was murdered, possible even for rape and child sex abuse. But although these crimes do occur they are a response to problems in society and not just the problems themself. The wave of anti-social behaviour is not coming from the middle-classes or the 'well-off'. It is from the poor and disadvantaged groups in society. I don't think ALL responsibility should be levelled on individuals.

 

Though I dislike the idea of government, I would rather have namby pamby liberals in government than see a reactionary bunch take power who would have the belief that re-introducing capital punishment is a good thing.

 

All the ASBO’s and other slaps on the wrist do nothing and total anarchy is not to far away.

 

I don't see what good ASBO's do. But I think you mean chaos; anarchy would be good thing.

 

Think yer on to something there Skig, but how to convince the political correctness lobby's that seem to have the powers that be by the short and curlies?!

 

It is not about political correctness. I am not a liberal but not everything progressive, liberal, and humanist is political correctness.

[Skig]

La Dolce vita = namby pamby do-gooder?

 

Because you dont believe in capital punishment does not make your views and more valid than mine. We have had the "powers that be" oversee a downward slide in society with a steady rise in knife and gun crime, so I say its about time that the tables were turned.

The present weak excuses given out from on high are just nonsence. You say we need to look at what is happening in society! For how much longer? Until a proper deterent is put in place the talk will go on and on.