Slim Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Yes. But how many under 18's get issued with credit cards? This is the fall back position of the businessess concerned. Most people under 18 cannot get a credit card to play against anyway so the tick is only a double check.Not that I'm defending them at all - its largely a crappy industry in my eyes. Again, these facts are pretty easy to check, why not check before you post, pokerstars accepts Visa payments, which are not necessarily credit cards they could be debit cards and may be issued to under 18's. They also accept payments from: eChecks ePassporte UseMyBank Moneybookers NETeller Diners Club International Solo / Maestro Cashier's Check / Money Order / Bank Draft Local Bank Transfer Online Bank Transfer paysafecard Citadel Rapid Bank Transfer Any of which could be for undre 18's, particularly direct bank transfers or money orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Slim - trust me, there are plenty of checks in place to prevent underage activity. Some is in-house, some in co-operation with the various payment services. I don't think it would be appropriate to publish the detailed procedures or techniques used, but it's a vital part of every online gaming operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Slim - trust me, there are plenty of checks in place to prevent underage activity. Some is in-house, some in co-operation with the various payment services. I don't think it would be appropriate to publish the detailed procedures or techniques used, but it's a vital part of every online gaming operation. Tell me, how can you age verify a money order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Poker Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 No amount of regulation can justify a fundamentally immoral activity other than to the profiteers... I didn't have that image actually - mine was more of families being turfed out of their home thanks to a gambling problem. Please explain why you think gambling is fundamentally immoral, as I think it's a very interesting question (I am not trying to be hostile here, I am genuinely interested in your point of view). Does your point of view still apply if the person in question has no family or friends who could be affected by their gambling? Do you feel that gambling, of any kind, can have beneficial effects, either on the person who engages in it or on society as a whole? Does your view of gambling extend to more culturally accepted forms of gambling, such as stock market trading? Are there any forms of gambling that you see as 'less immoral' than others? What are your key worries about gambling in general? Slim - trust me, there are plenty of checks in place to prevent underage activity. I can back this up. Besides the obvious checks, there are plenty that go on behind the scenes, which you don't even notice. For example, at PokerStars, every UK/IOM real money player is verified against a national database. If for some reason you don't pass this check (which would happen if you were underage) you can't play until you have provided satisfactory ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I can back this up. Besides the obvious checks, there are plenty that go on behind the scenes, which you don't even notice. For example, at PokerStars, every UK/IOM real money player is verified against a national database. If for some reason you don't pass this check (which would happen if you were underage) you can't play until you have provided satisfactory ID. Really? What national database is that? I can sign up to pokerstars with nowt but an email address and the name and address of anyone I know who's over 18. How do they know it's a me? Granted, I might never see the proceeds of my gambling, but I can still play. Interesting regarding gambling morality, especially given what's going on in world markets, the biggest gamble at the mo is investing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Really? What national database is that? They bought it off some teenager - inc laptop (no power supply or instruction manual included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Can anyone explain to me how online betting is any more immoral than being able to buy company shares online. Although I'm not the least bit interested in doing either, I would suggest that the former is more 'moral' simply because you know the odds against success before you place the bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 So you don't like credit cards, pubs or gambling - what about mortgages? Banks? Anything else from the real world? You are grasping at straws now. How can you compare mortgages and gambling. Of course I approve of responsible granting of mortgages by banks. by your thinking, is it wrong for any company to make profit? No. Should we just go and shut down all banks and anyone who does anything that's immoral in your view? No and (imo) yes. Is the whole of Athol street solely populated by immoral men and women that do their evil deeds every day? I have no idea. Please explain why you think gambling is fundamentally immoral I didn't say gambling is fundamentally immoral, people can do what they like for all I care. It's the state endorsement of it that I take issue with. Particularly when the only reason for it is profit. Does your point of view still apply if the person in question has no family or friends who could be affected by their gambling? Yes Do you feel that gambling, of any kind, can have beneficial effects, either on the person who engages in it or on society as a whole? Clearly scooping a jackpot is going to be financially beneficial to the lucky punter. Does Manx society benefit? Imo, no. Does your view of gambling extend to more culturally accepted forms of gambling, such as stock market trading? Yes Are there any forms of gambling that you see as 'less immoral' than others? No. What are your key worries about gambling in general? I don't worry about gambling. Luckily it doesn't appeal to me. I went to the casino on the prom once - it was the singularly most tedious night I have ever experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I didn't say gambling is fundamentally immoral, people can do what they like for all I care. It's the state endorsement of it that I take issue with. Particularly when the only reason for it is profit. The state endorses and supports lots of activities for which the only reason is profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Two or more wrongs don't make a right. The subject of this thread is gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather of Manx House Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I love gambling. Poker, Blackjack, Roulette, crossing the road, eating service station food, drinking jaegerbombs... You name it: life's one big gamble. Roll with it... ...GOMH*... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Poker Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I was hoping for a bit more of a detailed response, mainly because gambling is a significant part of my life, and I'm keen to know more about people's opinions on it. I do not intend to belittle in any way somebody who doesn't agree with gambling. However, it's important for me to be able to defend myself, my profession, and my industry against such claims. Does your point of view still apply if the person in question has no family or friends who could be affected by their gambling? My opinion on this is while of course we should protect vulnerable people from financially harming themselves, at the end of the day what people do to themselves behind closed doors, which doesn't affect anyone else, is their own business and not something that the state should get involved in. Do you feel that gambling, of any kind, can have beneficial effects, either on the person who engages in it or on society as a whole? When I finished university, I made my living as a professional poker player while I was looking for a job. Gambling helped me to pay for such luxuries as rent, electricity, and food. In addition, gambling has helped me to improve my mathematical skills, and I have made good friends through gambling. It has also become a career for me - a career that will allow me to support my family in the future. Clearly, the effects of gambling on me have been overwhelmingly positive. As far as society as a whole - gambling has helped to regenerate towns across the USA by providing more tax income. In the UK, lottery funds are used to support charities and other good causes. In the IOM, the government has earned a lot of money from online gaming companies and I would hope that it is put to good use. Does your view of gambling extend to more culturally accepted forms of gambling, such as stock market trading? I thought this was an interesting question, as a lot of people distinguish stock market trading from other forms of gambling. If a government were to prohibit stock trading, would the economy of it's country survive? But stock trading is clearly gambling and has just as much potential to harm or benefit people. I went to the casino on the prom once - it was the singularly most tedious night I have ever experienced. Yeah, that casino is pretty crap. Then again, the selection of games is not very wide and there is very little else in the way of entertainment there. Really? What national database is that? I can sign up to pokerstars with nowt but an email address and the name and address of anyone I know who's over 18. How do they know it's a me? Granted, I might never see the proceeds of my gambling, but I can still play. You can play, but not for money. PokerStars uses a service at http://www.uru.co.uk/ to check electoral rolls, births indexes, telephone directories, etc to verify who people are. Strict measures to prevent underage gambling are required by UK gambling law (the Gambling Act 2005). This of course doesn't stop an underage person from using a parent's account to play - but of course it is parents' responsibility to monitor what their kids are doing on computers also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spock Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 There are hopes that a TV advertisement featuring the Isle of Man's Poker Stars will be stopped from appearing on New Zealand tv according to this article here:- http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?...jectid=10483435 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 When I finished university, I made my living as a professional poker player while I was looking for a job. Gambling helped me to pay for such luxuries as rent, electricity, and food. In addition, gambling has helped me to improve my mathematical skills, and I have made good friends through gambling. It has also become a career for me - a career that will allow me to support my family in the future. Clearly, the effects of gambling on me have been overwhelmingly positive. Overwhelmingly positive for you as a winner. But in order for you to win other people must have lost maybe to an overwhelmingly negative degree possibly to the extent that they cannot support their family in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 You name it: life's one big gamble. Roll with it... Let's hope the government consider a little more than your asinine soundbites when formulating gambling policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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