Web Plagiarism A Serious Problem

[Declan]

Also in schools, couldn't the schools insist on hand-written coursework or that it is produced on a non-internet connected pc in the school.

[Alias]

Forcing courseworks to be handwritten would do little to prevent unsourced copying (from the Internet or otherwise), and wouldn't be too popular with other concerned parties (mainly the teachers/markers).

[WilDDog]

I've often wondered about the wiki effect at university. But I've come to the conclusion that it probably doesn't make much difference. I've based this on how I use wikipedia now

 

Wikipedia is the first thing they tell you not to use or reference, as all work is now checked apparantly.

[Declan]

Well, I was thinking that at the very least this would mean the pupil had read and thought about what they were submitting.

 

Personally, I don't care about bleats from lazy good for nothing teachers just because they have to read hand-written work. They've had to deal with handwritten stuff for centuries. How can they tell if a child has a problem with spelling or handwriting if everything that is submitted has been word processed and checked for spelling and grammar? That said I think whining about kids cut 'n' pasting is also a cop out by the teaching "profession", I would expect a good teacher to know his students well enough to spot their work.

 

That said, thinking more about it, handwriting only could cause trouble for dyslexics and may result in undue emphasis on superficial things like presentation and handwriting.

[Albert Tatlock]

Totally disagree with you there Vinnie.

Some students can do well writing essays but nerves get the better of them in exams. Lets face it, if you needed information about something in a work situation you would reach for a book to get that information, you wouldn't be expected to remember it from uni/college days, or to have an exam on it.

In my opinion assignments and coursework (done by the student themselves) are far more valuable than any exam, because you have had to research it yourself and I know from experience some of them can take weeks even months to research.

I disagree. One of the major points of examinations is to prove that you can learn and retain information, analyse that retained information, and output it through answering exam questions based on specific or more complex combinations of that knowledge when thrown at you. One of the major problems with course 'results' these days is that they are actually becoming meaningless, as much is based on coursework that people can do on their own, with their friends, using the Internet or even getting their parents to help them with it. IMO, though coursework should be part of courses, there should be less emphasis on it and not more. This is one of the major reasons why 'A' Level results are becoming meaningless to employers, as so many get undeserved grades, compared to years ago when the system itself filtered many of them out.

 

In the workplace, yes you do have books and other people, but more often you do get specific and complex issues thrown at you for which you need retained knowledge, and experience based on that knowledge, to deal with. For example, I for one would rather know that the aircraft I was sat flying on, was designed and maintained by people who had proved in gaining their qualifications that they could retain and analyse information - through both rigourous assessment, and work based training. The same goes for my stockbroker, my doctor, my nurse etc. etc.

 

I think some of the changes in the system over the past years i.e. the change in the coursework:examination ratio, have also caused people to move away from mathematics, engineering, languages and the sciences, which are more difficult subjects to test without examination type questions, and so rafts of people choose a far easier route at 15/17 when selecting their subjects.

 

The problem with current education policies is that they are all based on targets - targets for teachers, and targets to get more people 'qualified', and of course the easiest way of reaching those targets is to make things easier for more and more people, as it is far harder to improve the countries average intelligence. Employers, however, need a method of differentiating between candidates, which they could once do through exam grades. Now more and more employers have to set their own tests, in order to be able to differentiate between applicants.

[VinnieK]

That said I think whining about kids cut 'n' pasting is also a cop out by the teaching "profession", I would expect a good teacher to know his students well enough to spot their work.

 

Surely that's a little unfair. Plagiarism is a serious problem both in schools and in universities, and recognising a change in a student's writing is not the same as being able to prove that it's the result of plagiarism. Sure kids who cut and paste can be caught out easily enough, but those who rewrite a paragraph from a particular source and then claim it as their own are equally guilty of plagiarism, but harder to conclusively identify as having plagiarised.

[bluemonday]

On cheating at exams.

Clicky

[WilDDog]

but those who rewrite a paragraph from a particular source and then claim it as their own are equally guilty of plagiarism, but harder to conclusively identify as having plagiarised.

 

Yes totally agree with you, but they have to get there information from somewhere and by re-writing a paragraph shows they've at least read it. The other point is, surley there are only so many ways to re-write something, and at the end of the day most of the students work will be along the same lines.

I hope you get what I'm trying to there.

[oogie boogie]

you can't include wiki as research in school or uni as it's not classed as reliable information.

[Skeddan]

Yes totally agree with you, but they have to get there information from somewhere and by re-writing a paragraph shows they've at least read it

 

Cutting and pasting chunks and having comment on these that shows the student has read, understood and analysed this is no bad thing either. It is standard academic practice to rewrite, but what sometimes happens is a kind of chinese whispers - and just rewriting doesn't show that have really understood the content other than at a surface level. Personally I think there ought to be more emphasis on managing knowledge rather than regurgitating information.

[VinnieK]

but those who rewrite a paragraph from a particular source and then claim it as their own are equally guilty of plagiarism, but harder to conclusively identify as having plagiarised.

 

Yes totally agree with you, but they have to get there information from somewhere and by re-writing a paragraph shows they've at least read it. The other point is, surley there are only so many ways to re-write something, and at the end of the day most of the students work will be along the same lines.

I hope you get what I'm trying to there.

 

I do, and agree to an extent. It's fine to quote entire chunks from sources verbatim provided that you properly reference it and use or analyse it in your argument, or rewrite a passage providing you cite the source as having provided you with that insight or commentary, otherwise you're simply taking someone else's ideas and trying to pass them off as your own, when the whole point of essay work is to show some kind of independent thought.

 

Ultimately it's the difference between:

 

I went to the zoo, and the zoo was great, and my dad done fell over and I think it's because (A very clever insight ripped from Professor Yaffle's "Why Dads Fall Over at the Zoo: A Mathematical Approach" (1954, Springer-Verlag))"

 

and

 

I went to the zoo... and my dad done fell over and Professor Yaffle says: "(the same passage)", and I agree because there was a picture in the book and it looks just like my dad..

 

Both say pretty much the same thing, but the former attributes the insight entirely to the author, when he or she has clearly appropriated it. He or she may get away with it, in which case they'll have fooled the teacher into thinking they're more original in their thought than they may actually be. The latter on the other hand is more honest, shows the student has done their research, and, most importantly, shown they've thought about it because they justify their use of the quote by explaining how it applies to what they're writing about.

 

(Examples taken from the London School of Economics' archive of third year project work. Each essay received a first)

[Declan]

Now Vinnie, I would have thought that the former zoo example would be marked down, not for plagiarism (unless the marker was familiar with Professor Yaffle's work) but because he has reached a conclusion about why his Dad had fallen without having anything to back it up.

[oldmanxfella]

Now Vinnie, I would have thought that the former zoo example would be marked down, not for plagiarism (unless the marker was familiar with Professor Yaffle's work) but because he has reached a conclusion about why his Dad had fallen without having anything to back it up.

 

Now Vinnie, I would have thought that the former zoo example would be marked down, not for plagiarism (unless the marker was familiar with Professor Yaffle's work) but because he has reached a conclusion about why his Dad had fallen without having anything to back it up.

 

Edited: Did you see what I did there. Plagiarism!

[Declan]

Not really, you cited the source above it!

[VinnieK]

Now Vinnie, I would have thought that the former zoo example would be marked down, not for plagiarism (unless the marker was familiar with Professor Yaffle's work) but because he has reached a conclusion about why his Dad had fallen without having anything to back it up.

 

You're right! I blame the LSE, and everyone else but myself.