old_scrote Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Personally I'm all for the refurb, at least this would be a usable part of the Heritage of my Home, just how many people do anything other than see the Laxey Wheel, take some photos and basically that's all, How many times can you go to the camera Obscura, see the views once go again see the same views again albeit with different cloud formations..just how many times can you go into Mannanan house!!!at least the Pier would have it's uses, how many people on the Island go fishing? How many of you go on round the Island boat trips? and this pier could again be used for pleasure trips by larger boats, film industry could use it when wanting shoots for old series..Let's be honest about the money the Government are ploughing into other things !!!! £4.5 million seems like a drop in the ocean compared the the ever growing bill for IRIS, Power Station, New Prison, New Hospital e.t.c... Well that's just my view for what it's worth..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilDDog Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I'm all for refurbishing the pier. The money that's been spent on surveys and consultants fees would have probably paid for this already, the survey needed doing but the consultants? It's not just the pier but everything this Government does. Why can't we have someone within our Government that can make a decision without spending mega bucks on consultants all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Because they'd have to get a consultant in to figure that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Interesting debate so far, funnily enough Peter Karran phoned me while I was looking at the responses so far, he loved the result and guessed it quite accurate. (I didn't ask him his opinion as it could prejudice any decision by Tynwallys). All opinions are valid, even ans, but the main point is that the pier represents as much to Ramsey as Laxey wheel, camera obscura, Tynwald hill, Metal seagulls, Peel castle, Chicken rock, The horse tram and other objects on the island. I would gladly pay extra in my rates for retention of the pier. In fact, I already do with the £4000 paid every year by Ramsey commissioners for 'upkeep and repair'. Mind you, when asked how this money is spent and has been for over 20 years (£80000), responses were there none. Come on folks, be fair and give Ramsey a fair crack of the heritage whip. Anybody want to form a chain gang at any time, count me in, in fact I will organise it happily. (publicity hat on, my van may well be 'pimped' soon in relation to this topic.) So, any comments welcome, help me to judge public opinion a bit more accurately than the questionnaire. (yes, I am aware this is just a forum and not 'the public at large', but it is a true cross section of the population, random as hell.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 The views I'm hearing aren't so much to do with tourist attractions, revenue, or a fishing spot, but really boil down to this being 'cultural property' that people genuinely care about and want preserved and protected. If so, shouldn't that be good enough? If so, enough said. End of story. skrappey, you might find chaining yourself to the pier might not be very effective and you could be out there a long long time (but that said, you could become a tourist attraction). Maybe a more effective way of protesting and getting the point across about how people feel about this being important cultural property, is to stick a flag on the pier as an emblem of protection for cultural property: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:rzifZX...ralproperty.gif (You might also think about adding some cloves of garlic as well if you like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 this being 'cultural property' that people genuinely care about and want preserved and protected. If so, shouldn't that be good enough? If so, enough said. End of story. Despite some off my less serious comments I wholeheartedly agree with the above. I appreciate there will always be people who do not agree and that's fine and some of their reasons are quite logical, but if everything came down to logic & beancounting the Island would ultimately lose its soul/character/heritage - call it what you will. I think these things are important and help make the island what it is. Obviously it's an enormous amount of money when we consider it in terms of money we are used to having ourselves, but in the grand scheme of things I doubt it would make a noticeable difference in cost to individuals as such, especially compared to the folly of numerous other government projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 this being 'cultural property' that people genuinely care about and want preserved and protected. If so, shouldn't that be good enough? If so, enough said. End of story. Despite some off my less serious comments I wholeheartedly agree with the above. I appreciate there will always be people who do not agree and that's fine and some of their reasons are quite logical, but if everything came down to logic & beancounting the Island would ultimately lose its soul/character/heritage - call it what you will. I think these things are important and help make the island what it is. Obviously it's an enormous amount of money when we consider it in terms of money we are used to having ourselves, but in the grand scheme of things I doubt it would make a noticeable difference in cost to individuals as such, especially compared to the folly of numerous other government projects. Good luck Ramsey, as it's about time something was done for your scenic area, instead of it appearing to head for Douglas all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Interestingly there was a meeting of some 'steering group' on Monday night, the day this hit the papers. No publicity and no report back as yet. Do I smell a quango being set up, or just the people of Ramsey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Do I smell a quango being set up, or just the people of Ramsey? Some of them are a bit ripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well spotted there, very sharp. The allusion was to the people of Ramsey being set up rather than them smelling. (but you knew that anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiuspilot Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Bring people to the area? To see a pier? Are people that desperate for things to do? I really can't see staring at a pier being a particularly lengthy or repeatable activity. The thing is with surveys like this, they don't present a true picture. If the question was "If restoring the pier meant an additional £200 on your rates this year, and a further £75 per year on upkeep from there on, would you support the restoration of the pier", I bet you'd see a dramatic change in response. People get questions like "Do you want the pier restored" and get all romantic and think the money fairies are just going to do it for free. You put a real cost to them on it, and they'll get a lot more shy about their votes. the people who want it saving should all club together and pay for it themselves. i want to see it rust into the sea, so i would not want my taxes wasted on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Forget to say actually, just before Christmas (and the results of the "consultation") I saw 2 workmen (orange reflective jackets) walking down the pier they looked like they were inspecting the walkway as they walked along it.......so it can't be that unsafe as they wouldn't risk people falling and injuring themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Forget to say actually, just before Christmas (and the results of the "consultation") I saw 2 workmen (orange reflective jackets) walking down the pier they looked like they were inspecting the walkway as they walked along it.......so it can't be that unsafe as they wouldn't risk people falling and injuring themselves... They do maintain it, to an extent, rather than it actually just rotting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 They do maintain it, to an extent, rather than it actually just rotting away. I did wonder as none of the planks have rotted or fallen down yet.... but it seems pointless to maintain something nobody is allowed to use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 FFs, I know it is 'de riguer' to knock anything that doesn't immediately benefit the writer. If you lot could just focus for a minute and see what you are writing you would realise how fucking selfish and stupid you all sound. "I did wonder as none of the planks have rotted or fallen down yet.... but it seems pointless to maintain something nobody is allowed to use"... huh.gif. The same could have been said for the camera obscura "the people who want it saving should all club together and pay for it themselves. i want to see it rust into the sea, so i would not want my taxes wasted on it". Ref the Laxey wheel, both of them, and the tower of refuge. "Bring people to the area? To see a pier? Are people that desperate for things to do? I really can't see staring at a pier being a particularly lengthy or repeatable activity." Many angle to look at it from, walk the length of it and admire the view of Ramsey from a unique viewpoint. "People get questions like "Do you want the pier restored" and get all romantic and think the money fairies are just going to do it for free. You put a real cost to them on it, and they'll get a lot more shy about their votes." Good job you had the vote about Tynwald building and Peel water retention scheme etc; etc;, also that fucking expensive shit pumping system Are you really that shallow that the children yet to come and even, god forbid, the children you have raised so far should be denied a piece of history that is relevant, usable and actually capable of being used by them in future for whatever purpose they choose, point being they choose rather than being dictated to by a bunch of brain dead short sighted idiots that can't see the potential in such a structure, both for the tourist trade but also as part of an integrated leisure pursuit plan? Get off your high horse about 'your' taxes and let it blossom into a beautiful thing. Those taxes aren't "yours", they are 'ours' and as such will be used for the public good and the benefit of all islanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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