Frances Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I can't understand why they wont use sniffer dogs all year round. their use appears to be quite frequent - certainly on the last few boats back I've seen the dog walking over the luggage on the belt (usually before most foot passengers get down after the long walk from the Ben's berth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I know what you mean, but isn't that approach a bit OTT before anything else is known? Are you now denying that you blamed this incident on foreigners or chavs? Lonan: it's the conversations between the base station and the driver, not the public. Don't see any reason why this couldn't be recorded and used. No different from my work taping my phonecalls, or shops with cameras on employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Yet again, you missed half of the sentence, never mind the rest of the post, you quoted. Anyone can snatch a line like that and comment on it. Perhaps, but blaming a single incident on the foreigners and chavs before anything else is known is a bit premature in my view. I know what you mean, but isn't that approach a bit OTT before anything else is known? I know what you mean, but isn't that approach a bit OTT before anything else is known? Are you now denying that you blamed this incident on foreigners or chavs? No I was taking the pi** out of your sentence snatching and unanalysed quickfire replies - but it's obvious you didn't read the post to even pick up on that! (can someone please produce a smiley for a "large frustrated 'oh FFS! how daft can people get' type sigh!") So Sherlock, what other type did it then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Lonan: it's the conversations between the base station and the driver, not the public. Don't see any reason why this couldn't be recorded and used. No different from my work taping my phonecalls, or shops with cameras on employees. AFIK doesn't happen. IMO shouldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Lonan: fair enough. I'd have thought it would be useful if used to back up other evidence. No I was taking the pi** out of your sentence snatching and unanalysed quickfire replies - but it's obvious you didn't read the post to even pick up on that! (can someone please produce a smiley for a "large frustrated 'oh FFS! how daft can people get' type sigh!") So Sherlock, what other type did it then? Right, so, a response to a post about a mugging where you go at great length to say this is going to get worse and that both the jobless and immigrants need sorting out was in now way a suggestion that this crime was a result of the jobless or immigrants? No idea what kind of person did it, but I'd like to know where you jump to your conclusions from. The response you made and an accusation of me forming quickfire replies isn't half ironic though. Trying hard to think of a recent serious crime that involved an immigrant. 2002, Peter Newbury non immigrant with a job (abbatoir worker), double murder 2004, Lindon, non immigrant with a job (Postman), manslaughter 2005, Thomas Corlett non immigrant with job (web designer), murder All locals as far as I know, eh? You got some evidence linking local crime with immigrants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 there are a number of recent stories of 'immigrant' drugs pushers being deported from the Island it is well known that a 'chunk' of the Island's drugs are being pushed by 'immigrants' ; which kinda makes sense not that it's related to this story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Right, so, a response to a post about a mugging where you go at great length to say this is going to get worse and that both the jobless and immigrants need sorting out was in now way a suggestion that this crime was a result of the jobless or immigrants? I think we can infer that this indeed was the suggestion in the light of the bet being offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Lonan: fair enough. I'd have thought it would be useful if used to back up other evidence. No I was taking the pi** out of your sentence snatching and unanalysed quickfire replies - but it's obvious you didn't read the post to even pick up on that! (can someone please produce a smiley for a "large frustrated 'oh FFS! how daft can people get' type sigh!") So Sherlock, what other type did it then? Right, so, a response to a post about a mugging where you go at great length to say this is going to get worse and that both the jobless and immigrants need sorting out was in now way a suggestion that this crime was a result of the jobless or immigrants? No idea what kind of person did it, but I'd like to know where you jump to your conclusions from. The response you made and an accusation of me forming quickfire replies isn't half ironic though. Trying hard to think of a recent serious crime that involved an immigrant. 2002, Peter Newbury non immigrant with a job (abbatoir worker), double murder 2004, Lindon, non immigrant with a job (Postman), manslaughter 2005, Thomas Corlett non immigrant with job (web designer), murder All locals as far as I know, eh? You got some evidence linking local crime with immigrants? 1. This wasn't a 'serious' crime, and by get worse, I meant in terms of volume not level of crime, though that too is only a matter of time as the population increases. 2. The incidents you mentioned all involve the murder of acquaintenances or partners, not strangers. In something like 95% of murders, the murderer knows the victim. Muggers don't tend to rob people that know them. 3. I specifically mentioned the word 'unemployable' instead of 'unemployed' or 'jobless', because there are very major differences. 4. Yes, I am saying that a great deal of petty crime is carried out by unemployable people, and, yes, if we don't check CRB records, then by more and more unchecked immigrants as more and more arrive - that is just a matter of simple probability as the population increases. Of course we don't know who did this robbery for certain, but if you go back to my original post, and not your subsequent ramblings based on your point-scoring sentence snatching approach, or your inability to notice full stops in a post, you will see that we have many opportunities for doing something to potentially minimise the increase in crime over here, but that we are not taking advantage of those opportunities, such as giving youngsters something to do, tackling the drug problem properly or 'filtering out' new bad guys as they arrive. Immigrants are not just Polish or Bulgarian, they are English, Scottish and Welsh etc. too - but all have to go through our ports and work-permit system. By the way, you are doing really well for demonstrating the need to introduce IQ tests for immigrants too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Of course we don't know who did this robbery for certain, but if you go back to my original post, and not your subsequent ramblings based on your point-scoring sentence snatching approach, or your inability to notice full stops in a post, you will see that we have many opportunities for doing something to potentially minimise the increase in crime over here, but that we are not taking advantage of those opportunities, such as giving youngsters something to do, tackling the drug problem properly or 'filtering out' new bad guys as they arrive. Immigrants are not just Polish or Bulgarian, they are English, Scottish and Welsh etc. too - but all have to go through our ports and work-permit system. By the way, you are doing really well for demonstrating the need to introduce IQ tests for immigrants too. Ah yes, your arrogance can't cope with the fact that I might disagree, I'm simply point scoring, right. Your original post made lots of suggestions on reducing crime rates committe immigrants and chavs. I'm contesting that immigrants are responsible for a rise in crime. What you got to back that up Albert, once more time, back up what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Can we please take drugs out of the equation? There are many people who take drugs who do not mug people nor steal to fund their habit. Always people blame drugs because they have been brainwashed to do so. Oh hang on, maybe it was the womans husband high on some pills off the doctor, or are they ok drugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Can we please take drugs out of the equation? There are many people who take drugs who do not mug people nor steal to fund their habit. Always people blame drugs because they have been brainwashed to do so. Oh hang on, maybe it was the womans husband high on some pills off the doctor, or are they ok drugs? I think %age's post was suggesting that this kind of crime was rare, but might not be one day, in a similar way that drugs were rare in the past but now aren't. Not necessarily linking this incident and drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Your original post made lots of suggestions on reducing crime rates committe immigrants and chavs. I'm contesting that immigrants are responsible for a rise in crime. What you got to back that up Albert, once more time, back up what you're saying. The unchecked population increase and where they come from (i.e. external), as well as an increase in the number of exclusion orders granted over the last few years. Plus an understanding of probability. Just looking at the UK: "Within the 43 forces in England and Wales, the average number of crimes annually per 1,000 head of population is 112.7. In the Isle of Man (based upon a population of 77,000) there are 56.5 crimes annually per 1,000 head of population." That means for every 1000 English or Welsh immigrants we bring to the island, we could also be potentially bringing in an additional 50 crimes per year. The levels are higher for other countries too. According to your logic, and all the Manx people left the island to be replaced purely by immigrants, the island would be crime free, which is clearly a load of tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Plus an understanding of probability. Just looking at the UK: "Within the 43 forces in England and Wales, the average number of crimes annually per 1,000 head of population is 112.7. In the Isle of Man (based upon a population of 77,000) there are 56.5 crimes annually per 1,000 head of population." That means for every 1000 English or Welsh immigrants we bring to the island, we could also be potentially bringing in an additional 50 crimes per year. The levels are higher for other countries too. That's not probability: "Potentially" isn't a probabilistic argument. Also, your conclusion fails to take into account reoffending rates, and a myriad of other factors (i.e. what proportion of those 112.7 crimes are committed by lots of different people, and what proportion is down to a few habitual criminals - in the case of the latter the odds of getting them in a random selection of potential immigrant go down significantly due to their numbers, and so the chance of getting those extra crimes is less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Isle of Man Newspapers IoM Today Website The police said this type of incident is rare in the Isle of Man, which is fair comment. When I came to the Island in the mid 1990s I was often told how rare drug crime was. Many seemingly knowledgeable locals used to spout that it was only soft drugs here and there would never ever be heroin on the Island. I guess that was the thin edge of a pretty hefty wedge. Unfortunately, I agree with you. I'm sure statistics will show an increase in varying forms of offending on the island and I personally, would like to see a breakdown of them, including a breakdown of offences/different nationalities etc. That way, no one can imply (even me) that immigrants, come overs, visitors or whatever you want to call them is being singled out and tarnished. I have my own thoughts and opinions on this matter after numerous articles in the papers about offences caused by none residential people. I hope that the lady recovers and is not scared to walk the streets again and that the culprit is brought to justice regardless of nationality, because vermin like that, shouldn't be on the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'd suggest it was a wind up. Such calls cannot be recorded without informing the caller that it is being done. The details of a call - name, pick up and drop off point - are, of course, recorded. I'd suggest that you're wrong, sort of. You can record any call you like as long as you advertise that you do. This advertisement often takes place at the beginning of a phone call via a recorded announcement but it can also be a tagline on an advert in the yellow pages, a line of text on a poster at the office or a small advert in the local paper. Contact the Communication Commission for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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