Onchans New School

[Sharp]

Manx Radio interviewed Ann Craine at lunch time over the plans to build the new school at Onchan, she admitted that the Islands finances were a bit stretched at the moment and the new common purse agreement is going to make things ever worse for the Island. No plans to build the school in the near future but she admitted that her department had spent more than £2 million on consultants during 2005/6 and that the consultants were still receiving fees on this project ie project management, health & safety and admin..

 

Am I right in thinking that with the delays in starting this project the money spent to date on consultants will be lost as all previous plans, H&S, CDM regs, M&E will be out dated and as we know improvements in design are an ongoing issue, so all will have to be re done by these so called profesionals at a further fortune.

[manxy]

CONsultants, CONsultants, CONsultants.

Why does everything have to revolve around consultants

Wouldn't it be a better idea to replace the MHK's with consultants, thereby saving a fortune in wages, with a bonus of decisions being made?

 

How hard is it to say, we have (x amount) of population with (y aged) children and it's forecast that we need a new school in (z time) years to meet the growing demand?

I'm sure that someone else could do the maths and that there's more parameters to the equation, but why, why, why, do they have to fritter away our money if we're supposed to be tight at the moment

 

The floors open gentlemen, sweep away

[bluemonday]

A place with a population of around 80 thousand does not need 24 MHKs plus Leg Co.

Of those elected, although there are a few notable exceptions, most are inept to some degree or other.

There are too many town comms/corporation etc with too many people on each. Most of limited ability.

 

As regards consultants, if those elected cannot make decisions then they should be removed.

Analysis Paralysis seems to be the creed hence the perceived need to hire consultants for everything.

 

As an example in wasteful government, be it local or national, the IOM is in a league of its own.

 

The whole system needs a drastic prune and those surviving the cull need to be able, competent and decisive.

 

Given the continual self agrandising propoganda, I'm surprised that Ann Craine admits finances are stretched. The cuts to DSS services for example are indicative of the tactic of pruning frontline services whilst a bloated non productive government structure remains untouched.

 

edit to add.

 

Banana republic doesn't say half of it.

[triskelion]

A place with a population of around 80 thousand does not need 24 MHKs plus Leg Co.

Of those elected, although there are a few notable exceptions, most are inept to some degree or other.

There are too many town comms/corporation etc with too many people on each. Most of limited ability.

 

As regards consultants, if those elected cannot make decisions then they should be removed.

Analysis Paralysis seems to be the creed hence the perceived need to hire consultants for everything.

 

As an example in wasteful governmnent, be it local or national, the IOM is in a league of its own.

 

The whole system needs a drastic prune and those surviving the cull need to be able, competent and decisive.

 

Given the continual self agrandising propoganda, I'm surprised that Ann Craine admits finances are stretched. The cuts to DSS services for example are indicative of the tactic of pruning frontline services whilst a bloated non productive government structure remains untouched.

Whilst I personally am in favour of abolishing the Island's local authorities having all its functions centralised under the DOLGE, I feel many of your other critisicisms are a bit harsh. The cuts to DHSS services are no to so-called 'frontline' services. Also you logic that fewer people working in Government will lead to it being more competant and effective is somewhat hazy. Consultants are not hired to make decisions, they are there to give advice. Strangely, being elected by the people of Ayre does not embue Eddie Teare with great expertise in health and social care provision. How is he supposed to formulate policy on hospital-acquired infections if he does not have a full understanding of them?

 

This is not a criticism of individual ministers, just a fact of reality, and part of the reason I am against ministerial government on the Island. Instead, I think departments should be run by well-paid Chief Executives that are accountable to Tynwald and either the LegCo or the Keys. A belief in public service is all well and good, but in today's highly competitive society, you have to pay for people that are "able, competent and decisive."

 

I have not seen any evidence of attempts to hide the fact Government finances are overstretched, and the idea that the Island has an especially wasteful Government suggests you need to broaden your horizons a bit. Just across the water, the British Government has spent £20 Billion on a NHS computer system (though a tripling of the original budget is actually relatively good for large IT projects) and forgot to put VAT into its calculations for the budget for the 2012 Olympics. Even then, the British Government is praised in Europe and around the World as an example of fiscal responsibility!

 

I'm with you on smaller Government, but that does not mean taking a chain saw to the civil service, or cutting the numbers of those sitting in Tynwald. I would also say the Government needs to be much more transparent about its use of consultants.

[bluemonday]

Harsh? - tough. My opinion.

 

UK so what? - another country - no need to replicate stupidity is there? Or as an excuse? Invalid.

Also been there, worked there, seen what it's like - firsthand.

" you have to pay for people that are "able, competent and decisive "

And you pay when they are not able, competent and decisive.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that MHKs were elected by voters on the grounds that the people who elected them thought they would be able to do the job if elected. Granted that some fields will require additional knowledge but there are various options to deal with that.

 

"I have not seen any evidence of attempts to hide the fact Government finances are overstretched" Goody. I didn't say they were overstretched. Read the post properly - I said I'm surprised AC admitted they were stretched.

A world of difference.

 

As for ET, I'd be inclined to go talk to the Hospital first if I wanted to know about any area of their operations. Then I'd consider what other input is needed. But then again, I run my own companies, pay my own costs, stand on my own two feet and don't feed off taxes as required.

 

BTW look back on the Forum, most people seem to agree with the concept of bureaucratic bloat. Been lots of posts on it. For a population of 80k it's top heavy.

[Sharp]

(Opinion from a Local Profesional.)

 

All Government departments are meant to put all works out to tender in order to achieve value for money advice and services, But in the case of the Board of Education all of thier profesional side of works goes to the same two practices who,s Directors are related by marriage. (names supplied and witheld). If these Government departments worked to the remit of a Tynwald rulling, All works to be tendered.

[The Voice of Reason]

But then again, I run my own companies, pay my own costs and don't feed off taxes as required.

 

Well whoopy da for you. I suppose you've never had a project go over budget or employed the wrong people.

 

Of course the Govt "feed off taxes" - its their income! I don't suppose the hospital was ever imagined as a profit making enterprise

[bluemonday]

Well whoopy da for you. I suppose you've never had a project go over budget or employed the wrong people.

No

Of course the Govt "feed off taxes" - its their income!

What about value for money? As the second post in this topic asked:-

CONsultants, CONsultants, CONsultants.

Why does everything have to revolve around consultants

Wouldn't it be a better idea to replace the MHK's with consultants, thereby saving a fortune in wages, with a bonus of decisions being made?

I don't suppose the hospital was ever imagined as a profit making enterprise

Where did I say that?

[The Voice of Reason]

Where did I say that?

 

You didn't. Where did I say you did?

[manxman8180]

As regards consultants, if those elected cannot make decisions then they should be removed.

Since when does being popularly elected make you an expert on Design, Architecture, Quantity Surveying, Project Management etc.

 

Proffessionals are needed, politicians make (or rather put their names to) decisions fine. But don't kid me for one minute that they could manage a major project of this type.

 

...and the new common purse agreement is going to make things ever worse for the Island....

Maybe that is why she is Education Minister as opposed to Treasury.

 

IF it's managed correctly, which admittedly may be a big if, the new VAT agreeement could work particularly well for the Island. Essentially, we could do very well (indeed better than under the previous Common Purse) if our GDP continues to outstrip that of the UK.

[bluemonday]

I don't suppose the hospital was ever imagined as a profit making enterprise

 

I took that as implying I did. If I misread, my mistake. Perhaps to clarify what's the point you're making about the Hospital?( above )

[bluemonday]

Since when does being popularly elected make you an expert on Design, Architecture, Quantity Surveying, Project Management etc.

 

Proffessionals are needed, politicians make (or rather put their names to) decisions fine. But don't kid me for one minute that they could manage a major project of this type.

 

Agreed, I see your point but are there no civil servants with those skills?

[The Voice of Reason]

I don't suppose the hospital was ever imagined as a profit making enterprise

 

I took that as implying I did. If I misread, my mistake. Perhaps to clarify What's the point you're making about Hospital?( above )

 

That's OK. Point is that whilst an entrepeneur may have brilliant business acumen and never make mistakes making potfulls of money along the way, the provision by Ministers of public services is a different ball game.

Such people usually operate in an environment in which they have a skill or expertise whereas none of our elected representatives have the required knowledge to install an IT system in a hospital so consultants, which one would hope are experts with experience, have to be employed. This costs money.

 

Slightly off the point IMO there would be little point in MHK's visiting the hospital first and relaying the needs and expectations second-hand to a team of consultants. Some of it would no doubt be "lost in translation" and the consultants would have to ask the same questions over again as one would hope they would be more skilled in interpreting the needs expressed to them rather than developing systems based on what the MHK's had written down in their notebooks during their visit.

 

This would add little value and be a duplication of effort.

[bluemonday]

Thanks, I'm with you now. Although I still wish more could be resourced in house. There's a lot of talented people on the IOM. And going a bit off topic, I've had some excellent advice from the DTI. Fair play to them, I found they were very good.

[Sharp]

A profesional outfit was paid £27689.00 last year to look after the H&S of the site. (again) Tynwald approved the costs. its in here.

http://www.tynwald.org.im/papers/votes/200.../tv15052007.pdf