Newsbot Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Part of an Isle of Man road is blocked off after a car crash in bad weather conditions. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7230201.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 On the straight up from the Bungalow to Hailwood's Rise, someone had binned their Vauxhall Agiva MPV thingy into the field (same morning as the accident reported in the news story), it was still upright, no visible damage, so hopefully no one got even slightly hurt. In a lovely little touch, someone had put the hazard lights on, presumably just in case anyone driving by on the main road had thought to themselves, 'Well I was going to drive into that field myself, but since I can see a car with its hazards on, I probably won't bother after all.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In a lovely little touch, someone had put the hazard lights on, presumably just in case anyone driving by on the main road had thought to themselves, 'Well I was going to drive into that field myself, but since I can see a car with its hazards on, I probably won't bother after all.' I noticed that too. I guess it was just reaction to suddenly finding yourself in the field. Personally, I just would have thought 'Oh Fuck' After passing this accident, I was first in the queue (North bound) for the accident just over the tram lines by the Museum. This looked really serious at first. I spoke to the driver who had injuries, but he was OK though, luckily. The thing that really amazes me is that since Monday morning I have witnessed 1 serious accident, and drove past 2 others. It was very icy on Monday morning, and also this morning. No gritting or treatment of the roads was evident on either morning, although icy conditions were forecast on both. The conditions by the Museum were like an ice rink this morning; I know this personally as I was clearing the wreckage off the road! I was interested to see Mr Alan Hardinge's comments on the treatment of our roads from 06/01/2007. "Maintenance Manager Alan Hardinge explained: ‘During the autumn/winter period, we are in constant contact with the Met Office, who offer warnings and advice on weather conditions to senior managers at Ellerslie and the duty officer out of hours. ‘If a forecast for poor weather is issued, which may require additional staff, the senior management team at Ellerslie will review the situation and, if appropriate, put additional crews on stand-by to be deployed as and when required.’ There’s a substantial amount of work undertaken by the Engineering Works staff which goes unnoticed, as most of it takes place in the middle of the night when the rest of us are tucked up in bed" (Taken from http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/highways/Public...thly_jan_06.pdf) The only evidence I have personally witnessed is the gritter wagons rushing to the scene of 2 accidents this week. I wonder what the comparison is between gritting the roads when freezing conditions are forecast, or as witnessed this week - Ambulances, Police, and gritter wagons called out to accidents? Am I the only one pissed off about this? I have been driving on the Mountain Road for the last 11 years; every working day. I have never known the roads to be untreated like in this past week - yet is was forecasted. Has anyone else noticed this? Rab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Am I the only one pissed off about this? I have been driving on the Mountain Road for the last 11 years; every working day. I have never known the roads to be untreated like in this past week - yet is was forecasted. Has anyone else noticed this? Rab Welcome to a national speed limit - it's become a very dangerous road! Gritting it in advance of the forecast of sub-zero temps would just be too damned easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Am I the only one pissed off about this? I have been driving on the Mountain Road for the last 11 years; every working day. I have never known the roads to be untreated like in this past week - yet is was forecasted. Has anyone else noticed this? Rab Welcome to a national speed limit - it's become a very dangerous road! Gritting it in advance of the forecast of sub-zero temps would just be too damned easy. I find it impossible to even try to imagine DoT and the phrase "logical solution" in the same lifetime. I love the phrase they use on Manx Radio.........."Gritters have been out overnight." ..............But where, I wonder. I visualise the drivers sitting around a warm fire somewhere, counting their overtime and listening for news of accidents on the radio, so that they can put in an "early" appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 After having lived and worked in Canada and the US, mainly Alaska, i think the worst is what you get here. It's wet and compacts to ice very quickly. Still, most people don't adapt to the driving situations, either because they panic or don't know how to drive in the conditions. Both are understandable. However, in the UK and most places, they check and try to forsee the weather, they have people on stand-by at the Depot. Not at home and waiting for a call out. The Guys who salt the roads should be there BEFORE it starts to hail or snow. Not after, 2 hrs at least, it takes him to get out of bed, find his truck, and get on site. You are wasting your time salting after it snows. It in fact makes it worse, as the salt melts the ice/snow, then when the temp drops at night it refreezes into sheet ice. Smart move. You will always get icey roads here because the road bosses won't pay for the guys to sit in a hut waiting to go out and salt. We have to live with it i'm afraid. Overtime rules I'm not to sure if they salt or grit roads here but gritting for snow went out years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Yet another crash on the Mountain road this morning, by the Black Hut. There was also a car on the grass by Windy Corner. The roads were icy where there was misty patches. No treatment of the roads yet again. The gritter was on the way to the scene of the accident as I approached Ramsey. I hope the people involved in the crash are all OK. Rab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 The car in the ditch at the Black Hut looked pretty second hand...hope all our OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Yet another crash on the Mountain road this morning, by the Black Hut. There was also a car on the grass by Windy Corner. The roads were icy where there was misty patches. No treatment of the roads yet again. The gritter was on the way to the scene of the accident as I approached Ramsey. I hope the people involved in the crash are all OK. Rab I bet the poor victim(s) of these accidents are just sooooo grateful to see the gritter arriving after they have pranged. Could someone sue the DOT for negligence of duty of care if they were found not to have treated roads when warnings of icy patches had been given? The photo is for public recognition purposes, as few people have seen one of these in action. The information following it is for the benefit of the DOT. It is emphasised that gritting should not just be carried out after accidents have happened. THE SPREADING OF SALT, AND SALT SPREADERS The British Standard for salt spreaders and their calibration is found in :- BS 1622 : Spreaders for winter maintenance This specification deals with the various classesof SALT SPREADER, the methods in which to test them for correct distribution of salt, and it setsdown the acceptable levels of result to permit the issue of a certificate for a SALT SPREADER. RATES OF SPREAD OF ROAD SALT The following rates are a GUIDE to salting, the actual rate will depend upon the road conditions, residual salinity, and severity of predicted weather conditions. This table of SUGGESTED rates of spread is for impervious road surfaces, using rock salt specified to BS 3247. Frost or ice after dry conditions.............................10 - 15 grammes/sq. metre Frost or ice after rainfall/wet conditions................... 20 - 40 Snowfall..................................................... 20 - 40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 years ago (too many to think of !) when I used the mountain road daily to go to work (and would meet about a dozen other cars on the way !), and just after they put the first ultra-smooth shiny 'bloor knox' surface in places replacing the sharp red chipping stuff with loads of grip, on frosty mornings the bloor knox would be a white sheet and I ended up getting a pair of studded SP44's (half studded, about 100 studs per tyre, cost about £5 at the time) for the front wheels (fwd) and left them on until the morning frosts had ceased, usually about 3 months. It cost less than repairing one bent wing on the car would be and gave superb confidence that you could turn a corner and know you were going that way, the effect in snow was even more impressive, I once towed an A35 up hill after he had slid into the side of the road. If the DoT aren't going to grit the roads, just say so and everyone who wanted could get studs fitted and take care of themselves and save driving with 'heart in mouth' take care up there ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelslikeitshould Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I think studded tyres might be a bit over the top here. I to used to go back and forth over the mountain daily at about 7:30am and even at that time of day it ws only icy enough to be slippy maybe a dozen times at the most. At work, we get a 5 day forecast faxed to us every morning so we can plan what activities to do that week on site, if it's going to rain all week, we refrain from drainage until the last possible moment and we don't render or paint the building. Simple. Last weeks forecast said there was a chance of ground frost on Monday and Tuesday, this weeks forecast gives a ground frost warning for everyday and I'd be prepared to bet that the mountain road is free from a fresh coating of grit tomorrow morning....With the amount of people working for the DoT, you'd think there'd be someone there glad of something like forward planning to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I complained to the DOT last week, after the the icy roads on Monday & Wednesday mornings. I received a call from their Works Department on Friday. They go by forecasts received from the Ronaldsway Met office. He assured me that there had been no recent change in policy concerning when they treat the roads. If it forecast to be icy, they treat the roads. If this is the case, then I am concerned by the reports they are receiving from the Met office. From what I have personally witnessed, they have been wrong on 3 occasions out of the last 3 icy mornings. The UK Met office (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/) HAD forecast ice, the IoM Met office obviously thought otherwise. I drove over the mountain road at about 9.30pm last night. Air temperature was 3.5c. I was surely a certainty that temperatures would drop further, as there were clear skies. Sure enough the temperature did drop, and there was ice. Still no treatment of the roads though. What the fuck is going on? Rab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I think studded tyres might be a bit over the top here. I think that's the problem, they may not be OTT at all certainly in the 60-70's where we had proper snow, I remember times when the temperature didn't go above 0c for a couple of weeks day or night, but it depends whether you want to be prepared for the conditions and protect yourself from injury and damage to your vehicle. How many people actually have chunky pattern tyres fitted for winter these days ? When I had the studs I recall a sunny sunday with about 2" snow on the ground I went out around Dalby up over Round Table and wondered what all the cars were doing stopped in the dip after Eary Cushlin as I passed them, assumed they were sledging or something, but maybe some of them got home again after being stuck in the dip. It was here I towed the A35 which was stuck about 50 yards from the round table X-roads, about half a mile higher than anyone else had got (apart from me ) I also went over Injebreck to Sartfell on a totally snow covered untreated road with no trouble. With the current weater pattern I would think it likely that it could be frosty for the next week or so while the high presure system sits north east of us bringing light easterly airflow so we'll see how many more black ice crashes there are this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Drivers being taught how to drive to the road conditions is all that is required. people just need to set off 5-10 minutes earlier and drive slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Drivers being taught how to drive to the road conditions is all that is required. people just need to set off 5-10 minutes earlier and drive slower. That's good advice for the DoT. If the gritter wagon sets off 5-10 minutes earlier it will arrive just in time to prevent an accident from taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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