cheeky boy Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 oil is only half way through its exploitation Har. He must have meant at his restaurant. what a cheeky cunt you are keyboarder, I change my oil at least once a week BTW I have a table for one available this valentines night if your looking for someone special to wine & dine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Don't, CB, he's not worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Keyboarder: we are an equal opportunities restaurant We believe its a measure of a restaurants humanity, the way it serves the less fortunate As long as you don't soil yourself on the premises and can settle the modest bill you will be welcome at our establishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Anal retentives don't soil themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It is easy to reject something which you do not want yourself. As far as I am aware most of the population want them retained provided losses are curtailed somewhat. Why not put modern apartments on St. Patrick's Isle? Close the steam railway. Put a race track at Cregneash. Close the Gaiety Theatre. I am sure there are some who would think at least one of these ideas is the way forward, forget the past - live for the present, live for your own pleasures. I value the horse trams. There are things which I couldn't care less about, but I recognise that others do. I pay my taxes and rates for the greater well being of the community and I have no problem in doing so even when these are spent on matters which have little relevance to me. Haha, it is much easier to insist on retaining something you want when you choose to do so on an unreasonable basis such as 'I value them.' Really? Do you value them enough to use them regularly? I would think it much more likely that the majority of Island residents are largely indifferent to what happens to them. There is little prospect of curtailing the losses without seriously cutting the service, which would simply be a further admission that its time has come. Your other 'examples' are moot. No doubt you are trying to make a tedious 'thin end of the wedge' argument. St. Patrick's Isle is a genuine historical site which consititutes an real attraction for both tourists, residents and schoolchildren. It also serves as an entertainment venue. The Steam Railway has the advantage over the horse trams of actually going somewhere. Several places in fact. It also runs services like the Santa train to boost revenue and operates the museum in Port Erin and the cafe in Douglas. Cregneash, as well as being an attraction in its own right, still runs special event days, such as at Hop Tu Naa, and is presumably not running a deficit of over a quarter of a million pounds. The Gaiety Theatre provides a platform for local arts groups, as well as providing educational tours, besides the obvious venue provision. A much stronger case can be made for the retention of all of these than for the horse trams. Instead, the horse trams go no where, have no access provision, foul the roads and have no greater historical value by continuing to operate than they would if placed in a musuem. They have real value to the community, beyond a negative fiscal one. The excitement for young children of getting the train to Castletown or wherever, is hardly match by the prospect of getting the horse tram to Summer Hill. Your ad hominem attacks on my perspective are irrelevant. My personal dislike of the trams does not blind me to any positive aspects they have, you just haven't put any forward, and I can't think of any. Instead you repeat the vague and, as I have shown, highly questionable idea that they have value to the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Change the management. Operate them so that there is more benefit to the community. It is ridiculous that such a unique attraction is allowed to disappear because the Council can think of nothing but to cut the service to reduce the losses - a move which will actually increase them. The benefits of a good marketing campaign will do much to stop the rot. As someone who obviously appreciates heritage I am surprised that you are so against the horse trams. Here we have something which is part and parcel of Douglas promenade, which no one can miss, and which has so much potential to educate visitors about our past, and it is allowed to decline because of the lack of management skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Charles Flynn' date='Feb 10 2008, 12:47 PM' post='301200']The benefits of a good marketing campaign will do much to stop the rot. With respect that is rubbish. You can market them all you like but they offer nothing to residents or visitors. A slow windy ride across a rubbish seafront full of empty apartments, finishing at a disused bomb site. Can we please stop deluding ourselves that advertising the trams will make more people want to use them. It won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Yes thanks Douglas could be so much better - who is to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Yes thanks Douglas could be so much better - who is to blame? Quite. Lets widen the debate. Douglas is a rubbish resort, we have very few tourists that come, and we have very little to offer those that do. I think scrapping the trams in this context is completely sensible if it creates more money for the corpy to invest in the town. Douglas ratepayers are paying for all sorts of crap at a time when the town is falling apart and looks a complete mess. If they are indeed part of our "heritage" then maybe MNH should take them over from the corpy, if MNH or central government don't believe that they're worth that then they should go. Look what happened to the Villa after it was taken off the corpy. It got a totally new lease of life. If the trams are such a valuable cultural thing for the IOM to keep then the government should do the same - if not bin them they just generate crap and conjestion for very little benefit to anyone who pays the rates that keep them going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 We are not so far apart now. I can go along with this - MNH, Tourist Dept hopefully could do a better job. It is worth a go surely. I am not necessarily blaming individual Councillors, some of whom are a credit to the town but I think there does come a time when they need to consider whether it is appropriate that this public undertaking be transferred elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 Perhaps the Department of Tourism and Leisure should take responsibility. That would really test the Minister and his Chief Exec. At present they have taken a grip of the TT, an easy target for them to claim a success for and justify their existence. So how about a statement from the Government Minister on the Horse Trams. They're not as sexy as the TT are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 The Gaiety Theatre also was saved by the Government. It was so near closure a few years ago. It was 1971 when John Marsland a well known Douglas businessman who had bought it realised that Government needed to take it over as substantial investment needed to be made to restore it. This the Government did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It is ridiculous that such a unique attraction is allowed to disappear because the Council can think of nothing but to cut the service to reduce the losses - a move which will actually increase them. Completely with you there. When tourists can see a tram coming, they will use it. If they can't see one (and they won't if they are only every half hour) they will ignore them, because they will think the service no longer exists. Why can't 2 horses run every 20 minutes? Better still, why can't we have 3 horses on, every 15 minutes or less - far more people will use them, at not much greater cost. If I'm going into Douglas for shopping in the summer, I park at Derby Castle and use the tram, rather than spend hours circling town looking for a parking space. I have bought a season ticket every year, regardless of how little I might use it, as I want the service to continue. If the trams are going to be that infrequent, I might have to consider again - it will not be worth my while if I will have such long waits at each end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It takes 20 minutes for a horse tram to get from end to end unless the crew are going in for their break, in which case it can be cut to 10 minutes with the right horse - at least that used to be the case when I was a student - nothing to do with me mind you as I wasn't the driver!! So there should be one at least every 20 minutes with a clear indication when they are due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It is easy to reject something which you do not want yourself. As far as I am aware most of the population want them retained provided losses are curtailed somewhat. I really think I have to challenge that. What evidence exists to support the view that 'most of the population' feel that way? Of the people I've spoken to - both locals and visitors - a large majority appear to believe that the trams ought to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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