Dead Sea Scrolls

[mollag]

just wondering if anyone enjoyed the recent programme on the DSS, enjoyed it myself although i would have liked to have seen more on the Essenes after they left Palestine/Isreal.

There is a theory that they moved to Egypt, along N Africa ending up in Ireland establishing what we know as Celtic Christianity.

The Ronague connection? The black hat in the prog was John Allegro, a one time resident on the Island who may have driven thru Ronague one day [sorry for that ]

[Skeddan]

I enjoyed it but would have liked less on retelling the discovery of the DSS and church conspiracy theory and more about historical stuff, like examining the identification of early Christians with Theraputae and Essenes (e.g. Eusebius) and more on the political and historical context of the times. There was a mention of destruction of Qumran and arrowheads, which I'd think is quite important and relevant to hiding these scrolls, but this seemed glossed over. I know very little about the DSS or the period, but felt a fair bit of this was going over well known background.

 

Apart from my prefs the underlying theme as I saw it was good - the history of DSS and the contrast between styles of scholarship and the move to more scientific analysis. I really liked the big ink analysis machine that seemed to need a special building the size of a stadium. It could also have served as a nice comparison with the Papal equivalent housed in the Vatican.

[mollag]

Yeah i think they have to have a bit of intrigue a la Indiana Jones to pull in the punters. given the limitations of time-- it prevents them covering everything, something on the Zealots would have fitted well.

I have read a bit on the period and find it facinating even though i am a total atheist i can recognise how pivotal the times were, probs then are still probs now in the middle east. The roots of Celtic Christianity are generally a bit of a mystery, once they combined with Pauline christianity [conclave of Whitby?] 1t all became latin and Rome---early globalisation.

[Skeddan]

I agree about having something on the Zealots. I don't think they were even mentioned. It seems quite important how the Qumran community and Essenes fit into the picture. Were they for example like the political non-military wing - a bit like Sinn Fein and IRA, or were they separate?

 

I think possible links between very early Christianity and Celtic Church are very interesting. I've not come across a good treatment of this. I've come across bits and pieces in various new-agey Internet sites, but nothing very coherent or which presents any relevant evidence clearly and fully. Do you know of anything good on the topic?

 

Funnily enough in Borders over the weekend I saw a big thick book on Irish history by an American Prof. I didn't have much time, but it seemed to suggest Ireland to have Pharonic and Judaic links that predate Christianity, but it wasn't addressed in anything like any detail.

[Gladys]

Goodness, a Ronague connection!

 

I saw the programme and felt it missed out on the detail of the historical context of the scrolls. I also felt that there was too little analysis of the content of the scrolls.

 

I am also sure I have seen bits of it before (the baptism and the steps into the baths at Qumran are definitely familiar) but the programme synopsis did not show it as a repeat.

 

Pretty unbelievable that written documents could survive for so long.

[cheeky boy]

There are many historical precedents for important documents surviving improbably

 

The dossier in George Galloway stumbled upon in a Baghdad bomsite by a Daily Telegraph journalist

 

The "terrorist" passport found in the dust of 911

 

The Hitler diaries

 

All complete bollocks

 

Not forgetting the PKF report on the MEA

[Gladys]

Do I detect cynicism?

[Frances]

mollag

Ian Bradley "Celtic Christianity Making Myths and Chasing Dreams" Edinburgh U. P 1999 (in PB) is a good intro - debunks several of the myths

If you realy want a toughie then Marina Smyth "understanding the Universe in seventh century Ireland" boydell press 1996 (vol xv studies in celtic history) shows the great linkage between Ireland and Continental europe and goes some way to demolishing the myth of Ireland as saviour of the west.

[Skeddan]

mollag

.....

Frances, are you pointedly ignoring me?

 

Even so, thanks very much for posting these suggested references - the Smyth one looks particularly interesting and one I'll try and follow up. (I don't really know of the myth that Ireland was 'saviour of the West' or set much store by such sweeping statements, but I am interested in scholarship which examines the cultural links, especially in pictorial arts, and in 7thC-10thC in particular.)

[mollag]

Hi everyone----- it is unfortunate that sensationalism seems to be a requisite in history books these days, they always now seem to have to have an Avalon/conspiricy/ritual sacrifice element on the flimsiest evidence.

The links between Eire and North Africa via the Phonecians/Carthaginians are fairly well documented, trade is the great discoverer, and with dicovery comes new ideas--re this RTE have over the years produced some great documenteries establishing the links, cultural and genetic, between Eire and North Africa--Not a mass invasion but more thru influence, fashion and the human condition of sleeping with the locals.

 

I dont have a reference to hand but i recently read a fair book which proported that the large amount of standing stones in Ireland were down to the Semetic races establishing solor/lunar observations in the furthurest north that they could get to,

Interesting idea, good info on Irish sites but again, all a bit Avalon

[Freggyragh]

Mollag - The sensationalism isn't anything new. Google 'British Israelism' - a movement that came to the conlusion that as the British Empire was the biggest then the British must therefore be 'the chosen people'.