Pragmatopian Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 For the majority of government employees who spend most of their time writing memos, sending me incessant demands for money or browsing facebook Ubuntu would be more than sufficient. Why they're wasting so much money on Windows servers and desktops is a mystery to me: better to build web interfaces for the applications they use so they can go open source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 For the majority of government employees who spend most of their time writing memos, sending me incessant demands for money or browsing facebook Ubuntu would be more than sufficient. Why they're wasting so much money on Windows servers and desktops is a mystery to me: better to build web interfaces for the applications they use so they can go open source. That seems a no-brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I believe that Magic Xp was all about upgrading the governments systems to Windows XP and Windows 2003. I now hear that they intend to do the who thing again - at great expenses - to move them all to Windows Vista. More taxpayers dollars wasted. There really isn't any justification for moving to vista from xp for business, as far as I can see. It's barely justified for the home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alph3 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I believe that Magic Xp was all about upgrading the governments systems to Windows XP and Windows 2003. I now hear that they intend to do the who thing again - at great expenses - to move them all to Windows Vista. More taxpayers dollars wasted. Sweet! The Americans are paying. I like Skedden's wish of gigabit broadband like our oriental brothers. Suck that one ISP's offering better/faster speeds in the UK/Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King David of Man Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Apologies for the anonymousness... better to build web interfaces for the applications they us Ironically that is precisely one of the main aims of the Unisys project, not with a view to moving to open source however (which sadly will never happen in any Government environment) but to reduce the management overhead and thus the cost of ownership of these applications. There really isn't any justification for moving to vista from xp for business. It's barely justified for the home. On the contrary, Vista whilst I hate it with a passion, is considerably more secure and easier to manage than XP. I won't go into specifics but the upgrade to Vista is a significant improvement for the Government. As for the home, I wouldn't entertain upgrading to Vista for a long time yet unless you absolutely have to. In fact, give Ubuntu a test drive on your home PC, you'll be very pleasantly surprised. . I believe that Magic Xp was all about upgrading the governments systems to Windows XP and Windows 2003. I now hear that they intend to do the who thing again - at great expenses - to move them all to Windows Vista. More taxpayers dollars wasted. Again without going into specifics I can say that the upgrade to Vista is the most economical path for the Government to take. "Great expense" is a relative term. IT systems are expensive to buy, expensive to own, expensive to run and expensive to dispose of. Overall the upgrade to Vista will save the Government millions. The main savings are in management and maintenance costs but there are huge savings that are less obvious. How much do you think it costs the UK Government when those 2 CD's went missing from the Home Office, not just in financial terms but in global reputation? Centralised IT systems like the Unisys project, and technologies available in Vista (Bitlocker) considerably minimise those risks. Should a similar thing happen on the Isle of Man, which relies heavily on it's international reputation, the implications could be devastating to the economy. As a Manx tax payer I'm confident the Government isn't wasting a penny in terms of this project and the move to Vista. Now, when are they going to do something about those Pirates that call themselves a Ferry Company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 On the contrary, Vista whilst I hate it with a passion, is considerably more secure and easier to manage than XP. I won't go into specifics but the upgrade to Vista is a significant improvement for the Government. As for the home, I wouldn't entertain upgrading to Vista for a long time yet unless you absolutely have to. In fact, give Ubuntu a test drive on your home PC, you'll be very pleasantly surprised. Significant my arse. It's got a few nice defaults out of the box, but it's really nothing you couldn't arrange quite easily with XP. By all means be more specific, but theres no way any benefits justify the cost of the upgrade currently. I've done a commercial vista upgrade, and it's a major headache in terms of software compatability, and I'm not sure I'm reaping any benefits at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbx Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 This will involve a new virtualised server architecture which will save cash This was installed and switched two years ago. Host Mann now runs, amongst other things, the new hospital system and the Govt's exchange servers. Personally I think, putting those cabinets in to replace , ultimately, nearly 200 servers, was a sensible use of taxpayers money. The system runs very well now and has plenty of power to spare....... and the cells are a funky red colour which makes a change in a comms room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I was heavily involved in the design and deployment of both Magic and Jupiter projects. I can fully see why the Gov want to upgrade their central infrastructure. As far as desktops go, there is not much advantage of Vista over XP in a business envronment, so I see little point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Ironically that is precisely one of the main aims of the Unisys project, not with a view to moving to open source however (which sadly will never happen in any Government environment) but to reduce the management overhead and thus the cost of ownership of these applications. TCO would be even lower if there was web interface to apps. Have fast network (gigabit network and broadband ) thin client and cloud apps / RIAs with central file and database servers and great central infrastructure. Hardware costs go down (a PIII is good enough as client), admin goes down, and the licensing cost is zilch. Meanwhile I bet with Vista there will have to be a hardware upgrade (which is a huge and expensive project to run as well). (I wonder if they got a 'second opinion'. I'm afraid some - though not all - consulting firms tend to sell the client what will maximise the revenue for the assignment - to put up the 'total cost of consulting' - even if it is not necessarily the best solution for the client.) Out of interest, why do you think that a move to open source will never happen in any Government environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Because Paterson prefers 'other'solutions Paterson is "blessed" with not having to consider open source as an option: "I believe open source solutions are all point solutions. It is really about technology for technology's sake." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 available in Vista (Bitlocker) considerably minimise those risks. Should a similar thing happen on the Isle of Man, which relies heavily on it's international reputation, the implications could be devastating to the economy. BitLocker equivalents have been available for years (Pointsec etc). Web-based apps, SSL VPNs, multi-factor authentication, cache cleaners and the likes means BitLocker isn't a necessity- because no data is actually carried. I would feel more comfortable knowing my data doesn't leave the data-centre. I would say the biggest risk is one of the many contractors and 3rd parties who would be involved in the various projects and day to day operations of government. I've known a few numpties who've got their first job in IT only to be subbed straight to Government - I would say the biggest risk is the human factor. Virtualization and Web-Based applications will certainly lead to cost savings in terms of management and development, whilst also improving DR and Security - thats obvious - and also a common trend. To then go and roll out a relatively fat desktop OS to replace XP is where things don't add up for me - especially when things are browser based. I don't think Vista will reduce costs, a view shared by many other large corporations and departments of the UK goverment. In this case - the specifics would be an eye opener. Factor in deployment, training, consultancy, modifications to software, group policy and the migration itself, licensing - its not cheap nor a quick process. When was the last XP rollout completed? Virtual desktops and thin clients are a real option, something VMWare\Sun\HP are pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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