Stu Peters Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'm SO glad I'm getting old - the thought of another 50 years of eroded personal liberties and freedom to think for myself would be simply too much to bear. No wonder teenagers are caught up in a binge drinking epidemic - it's the only escape from the increasing rule and regulation of a UK government system that is corrupt and rotten to the core and doesn't give a damn about anything but keeping its acolytes on the gravy train. I've said it before. If smoking is so heinous, why not just ban it completely? Make the importation, trading in and supply of tobacco illegal. Same answer as with the booze I expect - they want the taxes. Lonan is quite right - it's the thin end of a huge wedge, yet the anti-smoking fascists are so gleeful at present they can't see it. I wonder when you'll have to get a licence to buy books or watch TV programmes that some faceless mandarin deems 'unsuitable for general consumption'? I could go on, but I'm too tired and dispirited. I'd recommend anyone who hasn't seen them to watch some Bill Hicks clips on YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Pub trivia: The three most common pub names are: Red Lion Crown Royal Oak More pub trivia: Any pub called the Red Lion has a 90% chance of being rough as a dog's arse. Scientific fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 No wonder teenagers are caught up in a binge drinking epidemic - it's the only escape from the increasing rule and regulation of a UK government system that is corrupt and rotten to the core and doesn't give a damn about anything but keeping its acolytes on the gravy train. Teenagers are binge drinking to escape from the reality of a society in which they won't be allowed to smoke in pubs when they're old enough to smoke and go to pubs? Yes that definitely seems to make good sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 More pub trivia: Any pub called the Red Lion has a 90% chance of being rough as a dog's arse. Scientific fact. Having never touched a dogs arse, I'll take your word for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I've said it before. If smoking is so heinous, why not just ban it completely? Make the importation, trading in and supply of tobacco illegal. You have said it before and I have answered it before. Maybe it would be the answer and maybe the economics do put those in power off the idea, but the simple reason that it has probably not been considered is that no MHK would be elected if this was at the heart of their manifesto. Just as no MHK would probably be elected if they had a manifesto banning drinking, proposing the closure of the TT. Ultimtaly whilst you may argue that our civil libeties are being eroded we still remain a democracy and have the power to vote for or against individuals standing for election. Presently the forthcoming ban has I believe much more general support than opposition. If it did not then I vey much doubt that it would have been introduced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I could go on, but I'm too tired and dispirited. I'd recommend anyone who hasn't seen them to watch some Bill Hicks clips on YouTube. The same Bill Hicks that died of cancer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I could go on, but I'm too tired and dispirited. I'd recommend anyone who hasn't seen them to watch some Bill Hicks clips on YouTube. The same Bill Hicks that died of cancer? Yes, but Stu has replied thus when the question of a lingering death has been raised: One of my favourite quotes (by Hunter S Thompson I think) is: “Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: “Wow, what a ride!!” Maybe he should read Tom Glassey's Blog - now there is someone who loves life and who's cancer has made him realize what's important - he wants to ride some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Well, if JD Wetherspoons cannot keep profits up in the wake of the ban, H&B have no chance. BBC News Story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I'm SO glad I'm getting old - the thought of another 50 years of eroded personal liberties and freedom to think for myself would be simply too much to bear. No wonder teenagers are caught up in a binge drinking epidemic - it's the only escape from the increasing rule and regulation of a UK government system that is corrupt and rotten to the core and doesn't give a damn about anything but keeping its acolytes on the gravy train. I've said it before. If smoking is so heinous, why not just ban it completely? Make the importation, trading in and supply of tobacco illegal. Same answer as with the booze I expect - they want the taxes. Lonan is quite right - it's the thin end of a huge wedge, yet the anti-smoking fascists are so gleeful at present they can't see it. I wonder when you'll have to get a licence to buy books or watch TV programmes that some faceless mandarin deems 'unsuitable for general consumption'? I could go on, but I'm too tired and dispirited. I'd recommend anyone who hasn't seen them to watch some Bill Hicks clips on YouTube. No it isn't. Smoking is a minority activity that is declining, and the places where you can smoke has been reducing for years now. Pubs and clubs are pretty much the last places to go. This licence thing is something someone has come up with that the media has jumped on, and people do their usual over-reacting thing and make hysterical comments like 'its the thin end of a wedge' and whine about a loss of personal liberty, as if there was much greater freedom of action in the past (there wasn't). The illusionary 'binge drinking epidemic' has happened to co-incide with a greater deal of regeneration of inner city areas, so a lot more people actually see very drunk people then expect the Government to act. I doubt you would shrug and think 'Well, that's freedom' if I was to smother you car-door handles with dog shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 ..... 'Well, that's freedom' if I was to smother you car-door handles with dog shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Ultimtaly whilst you may argue that our civil libeties are being eroded we still remain a democracy and have the power to vote for or against individuals standing for election. By definition that is not a democracy - the word has been so misued it has lost its meaning. A democracy is when ALL the people make the decisions. A Republic, on the other hand is where representives are elected by the people to speak for them and make decisions for them. In terms of the UK and the Isle of Man, both are neither a democracy or a republic - as we have the monarchy, and unelected second chambers, for starters - plus people in the UK don't get to elect the prime minster and on the island people don't get to elect the chief minister. Then there is the first past the post electoral system in the UK, which allows a disproprtionate number of politicians to be elected v the votes received by the party - the reality of which effectively allows only a small percentage of people (those in the marginal constituencies) to 'decide' who gets into power. This is how UK labour have a majority of seats with only 22% of the available vote. That same government has a major influence over the island. On the island, the reality is that only a relatively few MHKs, an unlected (by the people) chief minister and a totally unlected (by the people) LC influence things. Democracy my arse. The only people who defend the UK or the island as democracies, are those that are in power and those who support them, and those who are convinced that under the current system they'll get into power next (i.e. Labour and Conservative in the UK). Had the UK and the island been true democracies, there are strong indications (polls/surveys etc.) that there would have been a compromise over the smoking ban, resulting in a mix of smoking and non-smoking premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 The pub group also said that the drunken antics of celebrities were fuelling the misbehaviour of drinkers. WTF? How on earth can spoons suggest that the reason people behave badly in their pubs is down to celebrities. Nothing to do with the cheap alcohol and people getting drunk then? On the other side i do wonder how the dirty old men who frequent the wetherspoons pubs can behave that badly anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 A democracy is when ALL the people make the decisions. A Republic, on the other hand is where representives are elected by the people to speak for them and make decisions for them. There isn't any single criteria which determines democratic status. Democracy is a philosophical term which expresses an intent. Its meaning and definition is open to debate and analysis. It is not a strictly defined system of electoral or other representation for which there would ever be a single determining factor, such as you describe. I think you are confusing the meanings of democracy with the etymological root of the word democracy. Many different types of republic exist. Including states which could be described as democratically republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 A democracy is when ALL the people make the decisions. A Republic, on the other hand is where representives are elected by the people to speak for them and make decisions for them. There isn't any single criteria which determines democratic status. Democracy is a philosophical term which expresses an intent. Its meaning and definition is open to debate and analysis. It is not a strictly defined system of electoral or other representation for which there would ever be a single determining factor, such as you describe. I think you are confusing the meanings of democracy with the etymological root of the word democracy. Many different types of republic exist. Including states which could be described as democratically republican. Summed up best by George Orwell (oh how frequently his warnings seem to appear these days): "In the case of a word like DEMOCRACY, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of régime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different." -George Orwell, Politics and the English Language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Mr Spock summed it up better. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few Which is what we have here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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