cheeky boy Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I have "inside information" on this matter, which is that the DTL are committed to the renewal of the Laxey / Ramsey line and a complete refurbishment of much of the rolling stock However, my informant is aware of my membership of the MERS and MF so a large pinch of salt may be in order I will take an optomistic view of this and hope that the member for Ramsey will allocate sufficient funds to back up these claims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 However, my informant is aware of my membership of the MERS and MF so a large pinch of salt may be in order I think it will take more than a large pinch of salt to put the track right, although I assume Mr Earnshaw has already engaged some pinch-of-salt consultants for at least £30k to see whether it requires is a pinch of salt or whether some sort of engineering based solution would be more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 However, my informant is aware of my membership of the MERS and MF so a large pinch of salt may be in order I think it will take more than a large pinch of salt to put the track right, although I assume Mr Earnshaw has already engaged some pinch-of-salt consultants for at least £30k to see whether it requires is a pinch of salt or whether some sort of engineering based solution would be more appropriate. I think that sending 2 civil servants to China to look for new track is a bit extreme, when it is available almost immediately from the Welsh railways, if anyone had bothered to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langweilig Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 It has just been announced on manx Radio that the Electric Railway will not be open between Laxey and Ramsey this summer "for safety reasons" Anyone know what the problem is? I look forward to my tram trips each year. No rail loss there IMHO. I'm going to take a train journey from Douglas and spend time exploring Laxey. Ramsey? Forget it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 No rail loss there IMHO. I'm going to take a train journey from Douglas and spend time exploring Laxey. Ramsey? Forget it! Nice avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Why is it left hand drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langweilig Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Why is it left hand drive? Most rally cars are left-hand drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Why is it left hand drive? Most rally cars are left-hand drive. I've just made the connection - Armin Schwartz drove a Toyota Celica like it ran on rails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 My info, from a very reliable source, is that the track from Laxey to Ramsey is in a very bad state and is far from safe. The alternatives appear to be: 1. Replace it at a huge cost. 2. Close Ramsey. I'd suggest a poll, but I think Ramsey residents might be offended by the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 My info, from a very reliable source, is that the track from Laxey to Ramsey is in a very bad state and is far from safe. How much of it is in a very bad state though? Perhaps enough to argue for going for a single track system, as I argued for going for a single horsetram track? Personally I'd rather see a couple of £million or so invested in signalling, creating passing areas and better timetabling - and using the good bits of one track to repair the other - than potentially tens upon tens of £millions replacing all that track (going by the recent monies allocated to repair only a relatively short distance). Perhaps even enough to close the Laxey to Ramsey leg for good and continue to use the good bits to repair the Douglas to Laxey route? It is not used enough to justify such extravagant expenditure, and the hotels once filled with it's customers are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I think that sending 2 civil servants to China to look for new track is a bit extreme, when it is available almost immediately from the Welsh railways, if anyone had bothered to look. I doubt if any is available from the Welsh railways as they use what they have got to run on or for their forseeable maintenance needs etc When they do require it they order it from overseas just as the Manx Govt will be required to do for the MER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 "It is not used enough to justify such extravagant expenditure, and the hotels once filled with it's customers are long gone." government estimates are 45.000 people carried each season to Ramsey. Plans approved for 2 hotels, one in Ramsey town centre and one at the Lido site (Grand Island) Numerous all year round B&Bs in Ramsey. Ramsey is a terminus, not an interchange like Laxey. People come here and don't just pass through. What level of use would justify it's retention? Does it return a profit in line with the one the horse trams makes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 My info, from a very reliable source, is that the track from Laxey to Ramsey is in a very bad state and is far from safe. How much of it is in a very bad state though? Have a look at the photos in the inspection report that I posted a link for earlier in this thread. You'll be shocked that the line was even used to carry passengers within the last 10 years. See-through rails are in an even worse category than "bad". Do some perforation spotting here: http://www.gov.im/cso/cdl_report.xml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 "It is not used enough to justify such extravagant expenditure, and the hotels once filled with it's customers are long gone." Does it return a profit in line with the one the horse trams makes? The MER got £1.6 million for 3.5 miles of track renewal last year - which works out at £466K per mile. Playing around with these numbers: As Laxey to Ramsey is about 17 miles that implies they may need anywhere up to £8 million (assuming the work is similar, and the work is per mile of track - not per mile covering two tracks). Then there would be consultancy and shipping costs on top if the iron rails have to be outsourced. For up to another £3.5M they could also renew the Douglas to Laxey part too. So we could be talking anywhere between £5.5M to £12M to renew the whole track. Not as much as I first thought I must admit. However, the reality of what that means if the cost gets to £12M, and passenger numbers remain stable at 45,000 per annum, is £6 on every ticket for the next 40 years (not even taking into account the time value of money). If the costs are £5.5M £3 per ticket for the next 40 years. Even if the costs are only say £3M it still works out at £1.60 per ticket for the next 40 years. Whatever people say it's not economic when the MER needs major expenditure - and surely all of the track will have to be replaced at sometime over the next 40 years anyway? Then there is the issue of how much money the MER it brings to Ramsey - though that issue is slightly irrelevant for the island as a whole really, as people would assume that such money is already on the island and therefore it is not unreasonable to assume that it would be spent on the island, including Ramsey (as people have other means to still visit Ramsey). For £millions of expenditure these days, I would also expect many people are thinking about the possibility of a usable commuter system, perhaps with faster trams. But the problem is the current gauge is too narrow (3ft v the 4"8' standard gauge such as the Manchester trams). This gauge is the same as the 3ft gauge horsetrams. If at this time it is likely that substantial lengths of the track have to be replaced, then it's probably the best time ever to assess the viability of a commuter tram system, perhaps with a 3ft gauge on one track and a standard 4"8 gauge on the other (i.e. 3 rails on each track to cater for both systems) - linked via the horsetram tracks in Douglas to the town centre (and perhaps beyond) e.g. a system running from the town centre to Willaston and Governors Hill via Broadway, and perhaps up to Farmhill to start with - with these areas the first to be subject to rules minimising traffic in Douglas as part of an integrated traffic management and minimisation plan. However, even if this were possible I don't think this is realistic unless the trams run through major housing areas to pick people and otherwise it would fast become a white elephant. Persuading 5,000 commuters to leave their cars at home to use such a system daily and pay £2 would bring in over £2.5M per year compared to £90K for those paying (say £2) to use the MER trams. However, personally I suspect they will go for the 'patch-up the tracks' option, and the cost will be around £5M untill we get more problems in a few years time. So the answer to your question IMO is yes - with any major expenditure over a few £million on the MER it indeed stands to make profits in line with the horse trams - i.e. a great feckin loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 For £millions of expenditure these days, I would also expect many people are thinking about the possibility of a usable commuter system, perhaps with faster trams. But the problem is the current gauge is too narrow (3ft v the 4"8' standard gauge such as the Manchester trams). This gauge is the same as the 3ft gauge horsetrams. If at this time it is likely that substantial lengths of the track have to be replaced, then it's probably the best time ever to assess the viability of a commuter tram system, perhaps with a 3ft gauge on one track and a standard 4"8 gauge on the other (i.e. 3 rails on each track to cater for both systems) I am sorry but this is utter rubbish and I would expect better from an individual who I believe claims an engineereing/Scientific interest or background. 4"8' is the std gauge in the UK. I think it is similar in europe but wider in Ireland although the Dublin tram system is I think based on the UK or European Std gauge. Forgive me but I am not a train anorak so do not remember off the top of my head which exactly. Although 4"8' is the standard gauge in the UK narrow gauge is used in many parts of the world and 1 meter gauge is or was fairly common. Much may be old and historic but I believe some is modern e.g Portugal. As it is in Japan where all but some specific high speed lines are narrow gaugue and in Australia I think the fastest train there is narrow gauge and goes at something like 100mph. It even tilts. That would beat a fair few over the mountain to Douglas from Ramsey. These railways may be 3"6' rather than 3" etc but it shows it is perefectly feasable to build a fast modern rail service to a narrow gauge. Ultimately it is down to will and cost. If there is to ever be a fast light rail service on the Island the chances are it will be narrow gauge as it is not just a question of the gauge of the tracks the bigger limiting factor is the clearance for the carriages etc. These need not to fall foul of current tolerances or there is additional major rebuilding eg, bridges, boundary walls etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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