Albert Tatlock Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 For £millions of expenditure these days, I would also expect many people are thinking about the possibility of a usable commuter system, perhaps with faster trams. But the problem is the current gauge is too narrow (3ft v the 4"8' standard gauge such as the Manchester trams). This gauge is the same as the 3ft gauge horsetrams. If at this time it is likely that substantial lengths of the track have to be replaced, then it's probably the best time ever to assess the viability of a commuter tram system, perhaps with a 3ft gauge on one track and a standard 4"8 gauge on the other (i.e. 3 rails on each track to cater for both systems) I am sorry but this is utter rubbish and I would expect better from an individual who I believe claims an engineereing/Scientific interest or background. 4"8' is the std gauge in the UK. I think it is similar in europe but wider in Ireland although the Dublin tram system is I think based on the UK or European Std gauge. Forgive me but I am not a train anorak so do not remember off the top of my head which exactly. Although 4"8' is the standard gauge in the UK narrow gauge is used in many parts of the world and 1 meter gauge is or was fairly common. Much may be old and historic but I believe some is modern e.g Portugal. As it is in Japan where all but some specific high speed lines are narrow gaugue and in Australia I think the fastest train there is narrow gauge and goes at something like 100mph. It even tilts. That would beat a fair few over the mountain to Douglas from Ramsey. These railways may be 3"6' rather than 3" etc but it shows it is perefectly feasable to build a fast modern rail service to a narrow gauge. Ultimately it is down to will and cost. If there is to ever be a fast light rail service on the Island the chances are it will be narrow gauge as it is not just a question of the gauge of the tracks the bigger limiting factor is the clearance for the carriages etc. These need not to fall foul of current tolerances or there is additional major rebuilding eg, bridges, boundary walls etc I was only exploring the possibilities and raising the idea that at a time of potential major expense it's a good time to think about it - I don't profess to be knowledeable about trains/trams - though it is interesting you have found that narrow gauge systems can go up to 100mph. A quick glance showed most modern systems use wider gauges - and therefore many existing trams (which would have to be bought) are based on that. I suspect one thing though, that any commuter system using the current (scenic) track layout won't encourage that many commuters as proponents would expect - without going through some of the major estates surrounding Douglas/Ramsey. Incidentally, based on your 'I think' and 'forgive me' type approach, your post is just as much 'utter rubbish' as mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 The Laxey to Ramsey line has remained operational for over 100 yrs with minimal maintenance If we were to spread the cost of track renewal & maintenance over the same period it would be something of a snip My suggestion for promotion & PR for the MER would be to bring the rail up to modern standards, invest in some modern trams and power the whole thing with the wind & tidal power we are surrounded by but have yet to use In hard financial terms, it would be much more efficient to give commuters a Toyota Aygo for free on condition they took 3 passenger every day, but that would not generate anything like the positive global PR that a carbon-neutral transport system would But thinking global, or PR, or longer than the3 to 5 yr term are not the strong points of our ex-bank manager Tourism minister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 The Laxey to Ramsey line has remained operational for over 100 yrs with minimal maintenance If we were to spread the cost of track renewal & maintenance over the same period it would be something of a snip My suggestion for promotion & PR for the MER would be to bring the rail up to modern standards, invest in some modern trams and power the whole thing with the wind & tidal power we are surrounded by but have yet to use In hard financial terms, it would be much more efficient to give commuters a Toyota Aygo for free on condition they took 3 passenger every day, but that would not generate anything like the positive global PR that a carbon-neutral transport system would But thinking global, or PR, or longer than the3 to 5 yr term are not the strong points of our ex-bank manager Tourism minister ...........and has he been known to say "yes" to anything since he became Minister of T&L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 My suggestion for promotion & PR for the MER would be to bring the rail up to modern standards, invest in some modern trams and power the whole thing with the wind & tidal power we are surrounded by but have yet to use In hard financial terms, it would be much more efficient to give commuters a Toyota Aygo for free on condition they took 3 passenger every day, but that would not generate anything like the positive global PR that a carbon-neutral transport system would But thinking global, or PR, or longer than the3 to 5 yr term are not the strong points of our ex-bank manager Tourism minister But it would remain near-useless as a commuter service because it stops at the bottom of Summerhill, which is still some distance from all the offices and Strand Street. That is, of course, unless it is extended to the Sea Terminal, but if they can't afford to maintain the current track then that seems unlikely. For a much lower price we could run the Ramsey-Douglas bus route on recycled chip fat and achieve a much better carbon saving. Modern trams are not new, exciting means of transportation, and it running one on wind and tidal power is much easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 None of this addresses the fact that these consultants were taken on over 4 years ago to organise the track renewal programme. Why have they only now discovered that the Laxey to Ramsey stretch is "unsafe"? Why hasn't the renewal programme been targetting those areas that need renewal most? One of the "unsafe" areas is alleged to be a bridge that has no safety railings - presumably it has been like this since built - have there ever been any problems with it in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 But it would remain near-useless as a commuter service because it stops at the bottom of Summerhill, which is still some distance from all the offices and Strand Street. That is, of course, unless it is extended to the Sea Terminal, but if they can't afford to maintain the current track then that seems unlikely. Just a hare-brained suggestion but are the horse-trams the same gauge as the MER tracks? I know you'd have to put power lines right along the prom etc. The other consideration is the length of time the tram takes to get from Laxey to Douglas. Fancy sitting on a rattly old tram for that length of time every day? I'm sure the novelty would soon wear off. Are there any modern light-transit systems which could run on the mer tracks during rush hour, leaving the vintage rolling stock to run the rest of the day? Or alternatively, put on a bus service along the prom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I may have to withdraw my comments about our Bank Manager / Tourism Minister Apparently, this afternoon he moved a surprise proposal through Tynwald for 5 million quid to restore the Laxey to Ramsey track plus other repairs to the MER infrastucture The motion was approved and it is hoped that the line will be open by July this summer I was not in attendance today so I cannot confirm this, was anyone else there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I may have to withdraw my comments about our Bank Manager / Tourism Minister Apparently, this afternoon he moved a surprise proposal through Tynwald for 5 million quid to restore the Laxey to Ramsey track plus other repairs to the MER infrastucture The motion was approved and it is hoped that the line will be open by July this summer I was not in attendance today so I cannot confirm this, was anyone else there ? For one way track as I heard it. Jesus, what a total waste of money. A one way tram to Ramsey. What is the f**king point?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Lets just piss money up against a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 For one way track as I heard it. Jesus, what a total waste of money. A one way tram to Ramsey. What is the f**king point?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Lets just piss money up against a wall. A tram can run in either direction on one track so to make it one way would be pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 my god you cant please some ppl can you, so what its only going to be one track, maybe its a quick fix to get the line open for the summer one is better than nowt aint it, and next winter thay problay do the next track up, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThieBane Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Story update from Manx Radio As mentioned above by another poster, if CDL have been working as consultants for 4 years, why haven't they picked up the deficiencies on the track before? And surely if you'd earmarked a million quid for line restoration RMS Locotec awarded one million pounds for line restoration project Then you'd address the most critical issues first. And now the restoration is going to cost 2.8 million pounds for the urgent work to get the line open (for 2 months from July) and then a further 2.5 mil. for the next bit. This is, according to the minister, money we've already earmarked to be spent on the MER by the way. No indication yet if there is an uplift in cost for the bringing forward of the schedule. Anne Craine said in Tynwald yesterday during the debate, that there have hardly ever been any days over the past year where there haven't been any workers on the track. What have they been doing?? Who is checking the work done by these consultants? So many questions, so little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 A tram can run in either direction on one track so to make it one way would be pointless. No, you will still need points at any loops where the trams will pass each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Hurray! for commonsense http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/MER-is-back...rack.3873642.jp Welcome back Ramsey It seems that some of the Forums earlier proposals have been implemented. Who needs consultants when they have us? Mind you, a trip to China sounds good and I'm sure that I could do it cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 A tram can run in either direction on one track so to make it one way would be pointless. No, you will still need points at any loops where the trams will pass each other. Asides from when they need to add an extra carriage (normally a toast rack), A tram will run in either direction on one track, all the seats swivel to face either direction for that reason...... If there was only one tram on one track, why would loops be needed?.....There wouldn't be any other trams coming from the other direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 A tram can run in either direction on one track so to make it one way would be pointless. No, you will still need points at any loops where the trams will pass each other. Asides from when they need to add an extra carriage (normally a toast rack), A tram will run in either direction on one track, all the seats swivel to face either direction for that reason...... If there was only one tram on one track, why would loops be needed?.....There wouldn't be any other trams coming from the other direction... http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/MER-is-back...rack.3873642.jp The above link quotes "RMS Locotech will carry out the work and CDL will manage it, said Mr Earnshaw. He promised to look at the option of having a two-way service, using passing places, rather than the one-way shuttle service he had planned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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