Member Of Legislative Council (mlc) Elections

[thesultanofsheight]

We've had no reported posts - I can ony assume whoever posted such comments has removed them of their own accord.

 

I lost one particular post and didn't delete it myself. Honest.

[Declan]

I'd do it this way -

 

Keys - No change.

 

Chief Minister - popularly elected - whole Island vote.

 

LegCo - 8 or 10 members elected on whole Island basis.

 

CoMin - 6 members who can only be made up of LegCo members.

 

The benefits are -

 

1. Everyone gets the opportunity to vote for or against the government.

2. The Keys maintain the local link and act as a break on the executive.

3. There's a clear career progression for the ambitious politician - start in Keys, move to Legco on to CM. But rather than by patronage for being a good boy and not rocking the boat. It will be by impressing the Manx people that you are the worthy of advancement.

[triskelion]

I'd do it this way -

 

Keys - No change.

 

Chief Minister - popularly elected - whole Island vote.

 

LegCo - 8 or 10 members elected on whole Island basis.

 

CoMin - 6 members who can only be made up of LegCo members.

 

The benefits are -

 

1. Everyone gets the opportunity to vote for or against the government.

2. The Keys maintain the local link and act as a break on the executive.

3. There's a clear career progression for the ambitious politician - start in Keys, move to Legco on to CM. But rather than by patronage for being a good boy and not rocking the boat. It will be by impressing the Manx people that you are the worthy of advancement.

That sounds as close to perfect as I think it could get quite frankly, except that would mean you would need to amalgamate the ministers a bit. Easy enough with the Department of Tourism, but what else would you do?

[Declan]

Umm not sure, I might have miscounted. Tourism can be got rid of without difficulty. Could DLGE & DOT be merged?

[nipper]

I'd do it this way -

 

Keys - No change.

 

Chief Minister - popularly elected - whole Island vote.

 

LegCo - 8 or 10 members elected on whole Island basis.

 

CoMin - 6 members who can only be made up of LegCo members.

 

The benefits are -

 

1. Everyone gets the opportunity to vote for or against the government.

2. The Keys maintain the local link and act as a break on the executive.

3. There's a clear career progression for the ambitious politician - start in Keys, move to Legco on to CM. But rather than by patronage for being a good boy and not rocking the boat. It will be by impressing the Manx people that you are the worthy of advancement.

 

Looks quite good to me Declan.

 

It will go nowhere though, not unless you manage to have an MHK or one of the Government Advisors or a similar busy body smart arse in the subject pretend it was his idea all the time.

 

Nice one though.

[Naighteyr]

The problem i see with that idea is that with no change proposed to Keys and therefore 24 non-CoMin MHK's, they'd always be looking to give the executive a bloody nose and would have the numbers to do it almost every time.

 

You would efectively be making the MHK's back-benchers, and turkey's don't vote for Christmas!

 

That said I do think that since we have a non-party based system and therefore no obvious leaders, the idea of all-isalnd votes on CM and Ministers would be a step forward, rather than a vote amongst their mates.

[triskelion]

The problem i see with that idea is that with no change proposed to Keys and therefore 24 non-CoMin MHK's, they'd always be looking to give the executive a bloody nose and would have the numbers to do it almost every time.

 

You would efectively be making the MHK's back-benchers, and turkey's don't vote for Christmas!

Good points. Maybe there is an arguement then for having the other three ministers drawn from the Keys. I am not so sure that the Keys would always be looking to block the executive, but at the same time there is currently almost no chance that the executive can be blocked. I do not consider a 'balanced system' where the passage of legislation would essentially be determined by the same couple of MHKs to be any better.

[Skeddan]

Declan - I agree with the MHK being separated from CoMin and acting as brake as you describe. I also think this seperation would increase accountability, the ministerial bloc, patronage power by CM etc. (yes this does mean MHKs would all be back-benchers)

 

I also think it makes sense for LegCo = CoMin (LegCo had its origins in such an executive role). If agreed on that the question is over how LegCo / CoMin are appointed - by election as you suggest or otherwise.

 

Election is ideologically more attractive. However some practical issues are:

 

1. This wouldn't necessarily lead to appointment of good ministers. See points Lost Login makes on this.

 

2. This manner of appointment might lead to divisions and rifts in CoMin - i.e. not a cohesive team.

 

3. Overall govt policy could be fractured - i.e. different ministers pursuing different agendas - with mandate for this by being elected.

 

4. Having been elected as LegCo/CoMin would lessen Ministerial Responsibility of any form. i.e. once elected they could not really be fired by CM (or could they?) should they resign over blunders - how might they be removed? Could MHKs remove them?

 

5. Division of power / authority becomes fuzzy - MHK's might be seen as obstructing will of CoMin who are elected representatives etc.

 

Though at first it might appear less democratic, I think the US style cabinet style appointment system could be more accountable to the electorate. This would lead to appointment of best talent and cohesive team. Appointments would require MHK approval - and equally important, ministers could be removed from office - and Ministerial responsibility could and should be more of a reality. Since Minister's are not directly elected, MHK's would have clear authority over Ministers - and yes - would give them bloody nose when they should (which is just what is needed). However if CoMin is elected as you describe, they wouldn't have this same bark or bite. With this alternative MHKs would have greater powers over Executive. That is the imbalance that needs to be corrected if anything.

 

To draw perhaps bad analogy - consider a CEO whose management team are appointed by shareholders for fixed term of 5 years - not very promising. However making management more accountable to shareholders would be a good thing.

 

I would also add to any system a provision that elected representatives could be 'de-elected' i.e. petition of constituents would lead to a by-election. That alone would keep them more interested in will of electorate throughout the term of office rather than just election time.

[manxman8180]

And the saga continues.

 

Now we're off to a fourth vote in a couple of weeks.

 

Somebody else stand, please..................

[jimbms]

I'd do it this way -

 

Keys - No change.

 

Chief Minister - popularly elected - whole Island vote.

 

LegCo - 8 or 10 members elected on whole Island basis.

 

CoMin - 6 members who can only be made up of LegCo members.

 

The benefits are -

 

1. Everyone gets the opportunity to vote for or against the government.

2. The Keys maintain the local link and act as a break on the executive.

3. There's a clear career progression for the ambitious politician - start in Keys, move to Legco on to CM. But rather than by patronage for being a good boy and not rocking the boat. It will be by impressing the Manx people that you are the worthy of advancement.

Oh dear I am now seriously worried about my state of mind, I am begining to agree with some of Declan's posts.

[Charles Flynn]

We now have election by attrition. I think two or three attempts at being failed to be elected by the Keys should be a hint for anyone to stand aside. How can you claim to have a mandate without clear and enthusiatic support?

[Naighteyr]

We now have election by attrition. I think two or three attempts at being failed to be elected by the Keys should be a hint for anyone to stand aside. How can you claim to have a mandate without clear and enthusiatic support?

 

Indeed, but then how many rounds did it take last time, was it 7 or 8?!!!!

 

Mr Callister can see that his vote has waned, while Mrs Crowe said at the outset that the Keys had had ample opportunity to see what she could do - well they have and they clearly don't want her back.

 

Time for the MHK's to find some new candidates me thinks.

 

Meanwhile it all strengthens the case for reform of the process.

[Lonan3]

a in piss-up couldn't a MHKs brewery organise.

Re-arrange to make a well-known and very accurate statement.

[Albert Tatlock]

a in piss-up couldn't a MHKs brewery organise.

Re-arrange to make a well-known and very accurate statement.

Campaigner Swines are stupid Knobs Hourly

 

...Stupid hearsay bilge-spun moronic wankers

 

...etc

 

_

[P.K.]

Here are some simple numbers to put it in perspective:

 

In the UK there are 600+ MP's representing 60+m inhabitants. So you are basically looking for one talented individual amongst 100K of the population who wants to be a politician and claim all those unaccountable allowances. Not just possible but highly probable. Moving on to cabinet level it's something like 25 out of the population which works out at a cabinet member per 2.5 million souls. Believe it or not you're bound to find talent there.

 

In the IOM you have to find a talented individual who wants to be a politician in each 2k of the population....

 

And you all stand back surprised when you find they're a bit rubbish - dear me.