Fuel Price Up Again

[molly]

I can tell you as a fact that the two road fuel suppliers don't work together as to what they sell there fuel at. There is only one petrol station on the island that is run by the islands shell distributor all other shell garages are independently run and it is up to those to set there own prices.Total own the majority of there fuel garages but not all.

[Pat Ayres]

I would pay whatever they wanted for fuel, I think they deserve every penny they get out of us, brilliant.

However, the government don't deserve their extortionate taxes from fuel, they do sod all for it and just employ people to count the takings, it's all wrong.

[sarahc]

Not sure how taxing road fuel is extortionate, given the miriad problems buring it causes: pollution, health, damage to buildings, the noise of their engines.

 

and that makes it ok to tax it well over price,

 

It is absolutely untrue that petrol costs the same in all the Island's outlets.

 

you find it is,

at any one point you find that there is only ever 1 ppl diffrence in the price, normaly its the same

total seam to have a price war on at the moment its 1ppl cheaper,

and u prob find next month its shell who is the 1ppl cheaper,

the simple fact is that the 2 main supplys of fuel in the island work with each other to keep the price the same,

there never will be a price war of fuel prices between them as thay both lose cash, so work together,

 

the simple fact is it dont cost 5ppl to import it in the island, what ever thay say, thay talking out of there ass, and that is a fact,

 

So it's not the same then.

[Slim]

I would pay whatever they wanted for fuel, I think they deserve every penny they get out of us, brilliant.

However, the government don't deserve their extortionate taxes from fuel, they do sod all for it and just employ people to count the takings, it's all wrong.

 

Since when's taxation bean about the government earning their money? What does the government do to earn VAT, or income tax?

 

There's more casual car use than ever, so it's hardly crippling is it? Want to pay less? Cut out unnecessary car trips. I see people daily driving five mins at a time, it's stupid.

 

Oil is running out, people need to be discouraged from using it, simple as.

[rallybug]

The actual price we're paying isn't helped by the oil being priced in USD, what with that currency not being worth much right now.

 

[gazza]

I can tell you as a fact that the two road fuel suppliers don't work together as to what they sell there fuel at. There is only one petrol station on the island that is run by the islands shell distributor all other shell garages are independently run and it is up to those to set there own prices.Total own the majority of there fuel garages but not all.

 

and who do u think sets the fuel price in the first place, the garages only make about 3-4ppl on it,

and thay do work together, (but we could debate that all day so lets not)

still the simple fact is the tax our goverment puts on it is stupid, and the extre cost thay say it is here is because of transport is utter crap, i know that for a fact

[House]

As has already been said, oil is a finite resource and we're pretty much at 'peak oil' right now - i.e. they can't pump and refine the stuff quick enough to keep up with demand, and there isn't any available capacity within the system or the prospect of major new fields being discovered to introduce any slack either.

 

Basically, it's running out, and it's only going to get worse from now on - so abandon any hope of ever again seeing the litres go up faster than the pounds at the pump.

 

But this is where we're at, and we have to start to make compromises - and it's not as if we're in times of genuine shortage, it's just that prices are becoming increasingly reflective of the supply and demand situation.

 

This is why our current car is a frugal diesel, (it definitely wouldn't be my first choice.....), this is why we're trying to use the oil-fired heating less, it's why I'm car-sharing with a colleague on days I can be confident my hours will be pretty much 9-5 - and all the time I'm very much aware of the fact that we're not talking about real hardship.

 

What I would like see is some kind of serious move to get the stupid fucking 4.8 litre BMW X-5s (and their ilk) off the road, there's a painfully clear delineation being made between the folks who obviously have no problem with a car that costs £40K+ and does about three times less miles to the gallon than any 'normal' car, and the rest of us who use cars out of necessity and do it on the most reasonable budget we can work out.

 

This would be fine if oil were an infinite commodity that'll be here for ever, but we're on the downward slide already, and having chunks of the population wantonly chucking away endless barrels of the stuff just because they can afford to seems rather socially irresponsible.

[Max Power]

Not sure how taxing road fuel is extortionate, given the miriad problems buring it causes: pollution, health, damage to buildings, the noise of their engines.

 

and that makes it ok to tax it well over price,

 

It is absolutely untrue that petrol costs the same in all the Island's outlets.

 

you find it is,

at any one point you find that there is only ever 1 ppl diffrence in the price, normaly its the same

total seam to have a price war on at the moment its 1ppl cheaper,

and u prob find next month its shell who is the 1ppl cheaper,

the simple fact is that the 2 main supplys of fuel in the island work with each other to keep the price the same,

there never will be a price war of fuel prices between them as thay both lose cash, so work together,

 

the simple fact is it dont cost 5ppl to import it in the island, what ever thay say, thay talking out of there ass, and that is a fact,

 

You are right. Fuel has to be shipped to Northern Ireland and distributed over longer distances as well, but it was 10-12 pence a litre cheaper there last week!

[pongo]

The actual price we're paying isn't helped by the oil being priced in USD, what with that currency not being worth much right now.

 

 

I understand that it's running out. And I'm pretty much on board with the environmental arguments. I understand that it's a dirty and finite resource. I understand that a chunk of what we pay is taxation.

 

The bit I can't get my head around is why it isn't cheaper given that it is traded in dollars. I can get as far as understanding that the oil producers cut production, to raise the price, to make up for the fact that the $US is weak - but I can't understand why the sterling and euro price we pay ends up going even higher. It's a chunk of economics which I need someone to explain to me. Just the mechanics of how that happens.

 

Also - when Shell and BP announce record results ... the market experts always, lately, write this off as being (obviously) the result of the high price of oil. Is there some reason, internationally, why the fuel companies are required to pass on, at the pump, this higher price? That isn't a rhetorical (why oh why) type question btw.

 

Someone have a go at explaining it all

[House]

Someone have a go at explaining it all

 

 

One word - capitalism.

[gazza]

As has already been said, oil is a finite resource and we're pretty much at 'peak oil' right now - i.e. they can't pump and refine the stuff quick enough to keep up with demand, and there isn't any available capacity within the system or the prospect of major new fields being discovered to introduce any slack either.

 

well that all depends what side u listern to, if we at peak oil or not yet, some say we are some say we arent,

all depends who u beleave,

 

there is room in the systerm for increase in production, but opec limit the amount of oil that can be produced

 

What I would like see is some kind of serious move to get the stupid fucking 4.8 litre BMW X-5s (and their ilk) off the road, there's a painfully clear delineation being made between the folks who obviously have no problem with a car that costs £40K+ and does about three times less miles to the gallon than any 'normal' car, and the rest of us who use cars out of necessity and do it on the most reasonable budget we can work out.

 

now while i agree with you on some points of this, the problem you have is, what about the people that do need the bigger engines, ie for work or what ever, yes while i would say 90% are just people that dont need them, it would be hard to

pick who needs them over who dont, and there be allways round it,

so i would say thats a no go area,

i know when im toweing with my pajero im only getting around15-20 mpg max

[Port Erin]

Not sure how taxing road fuel is extortionate, given the miriad problems buring it causes: pollution, health, damage to buildings, the noise of their engines.

 

and that makes it ok to tax it well over price,

 

It is absolutely untrue that petrol costs the same in all the Island's outlets.

 

you find it is,

at any one point you find that there is only ever 1 ppl diffrence in the price, normaly its the same

total seam to have a price war on at the moment its 1ppl cheaper,

and u prob find next month its shell who is the 1ppl cheaper,

the simple fact is that the 2 main supplys of fuel in the island work with each other to keep the price the same,

there never will be a price war of fuel prices between them as thay both lose cash, so work together,

 

the simple fact is it dont cost 5ppl to import it in the island, what ever thay say, thay talking out of there ass, and that is a fact,

 

You are right. Fuel has to be shipped to Northern Ireland and distributed over longer distances as well, but it was 10-12 pence a litre cheaper there last week!

 

 

 

We get fleeced over here on basic commodities, no doubt about it and it's sanctioned by the Government and the OFT - the Steam Racket, petrol, etc.

 

The Government doesn't like competition here.

[triskelion]

We get fleeced over here on basic commodities, no doubt about it and it's sanctioned by the Government and the OFT - the Steam Racket, petrol, etc.

 

The Government doesn't like competition here.

A conspiracy is hardly the logical answer. Stuff is always more expensive in a small market isolated by transport realities. Northern Ireland has a much larger population, so economies of scale come into play, and being attached to Eire helps out a lot. As an extension of this, there is a lot bigger scope for competiton, especially with supermarket pumps.

 

As for other 'basic commodities,' if you take bread, yes Ramsey Bakery is more expensive, but if it went out of business, everytime we have a few days of bad weather and the Ben can't sail, we would be left without any bread.

[Port Erin]

We get fleeced over here on basic commodities, no doubt about it and it's sanctioned by the Government and the OFT - the Steam Racket, petrol, etc.

 

The Government doesn't like competition here.

A conspiracy is hardly the logical answer. Stuff is always more expensive in a small market isolated by transport realities. Northern Ireland has a much larger population, so economies of scale come into play, and being attached to Eire helps out a lot. As an extension of this, there is a lot bigger scope for competiton, especially with supermarket pumps.

 

As for other 'basic commodities,' if you take bread, yes Ramsey Bakery is more expensive, but if it went out of business, everytime we have a few days of bad weather and the Ben can't sail, we would be left without any bread.

 

 

It wouldn't bother me one jot if Ramsey Bakery went out of business. Their bread is like cardboard, it isn't as fresh and long lasting as it should be, it's overpriced and I wouldn't buy it if it was the only bread left on the shelf. I'd rather do without than put up with shoddy, overpriced produce.

[manshimajin]

Stuff is always more expensive in a small market isolated by transport realities. Northern Ireland has a much larger population, so economies of scale come into play, and being attached to Eire helps out a lot.

 

I can assure you that in the Republic of Ireland we reckon we get well fleeced by companies like Tesco who claim that they have to pay high transport costs but are able to sell the same items for significantly less in the North which has similar transport costs. Companies like M&S are also taking advantage of the strength of the euro versus sterling when they convert UK prices into euro ones. A recent survey showed them over-pricing by about 20% when exchange rates were taken into consideration.

 

On the petrol front - in Ireland we have cheaper fuel costs but get absolutely slaughtered on annual registration fees - my 2,799 cc car costs the equivalent of £950 pa to tax. I worked out that compared with the UK (not the island) if I do 15,000 km per annum it would in total cost the same in Ireland as in the UK despite the horrendous UK petrol prices.

 

When I go to the UK the driving styles indicate to me that UK drivers actually don't mind paying high petrol costs as virtually none of them drive in fuel saving ways. Is that the same in the IoM?

 

Maybe the long term ecologically correct way to go would be to abolish registration fees altogether (saving money in admin) and collect all charges through the tax on fuel? That way what you pay is directly linked to mileage and to fuel consumption/engine size.