Immigration 'small Benefit' To Uk

[Albert Tatlock]

From the BBC: Immigration 'small benefit' to UK.

"Record levels of immigration have had "little or no impact" on the economic well-being of Britons, an influential House of Lords committee has said."

 

"It added there was a "clear danger" immigration had hit training and apprenticeships offered to British workers, and had contributed towards demand for housing and high house prices."

 

"The use of GDP as the measure of immigration's economic contribution was "irrelevant and misleading". Instead, GDP per capita - or income per head of the population - would be a better measure, the report said."

Perhaps a timely reminder to Manx politicians that they should maybe listen more and act on the concerns of their voters as voiced at the last election 18 months ago, and that the island can learn a lot from what is happening in the UK - before things get out of control here.

[pongo]

There was an interesting item by David Osler on the Lloyds List Blog last week entitled Throw open the gates:

 

BOTH in terms of free market economic theory and on broader philosophical grounds, there is plenty to be said for unrestricted immigration.

 

The economic activity of first generation immigrants to the UK is worth something like 10% of GDP. That’s twice the contribution of North Sea oil. More than a quarter of London’s financial services workforce is foreign-born, while about half of newly-registered doctors and nurses come from outside Europe.

 

Simply put, either liberalisation is the way to maximise economic welfare, or it is not. If it is, governments should be dismantling immigration controls with the same zeal with which they once scrapped capital controls.

 

What’s more, the residual anarchist in me simply doesn’t think it is the job of governments to tell people where to live.

 

I think, I think, that free trade, the free movement of capital and the free movement of people are indivisible.

[Albert Tatlock]

I think, I think, that free trade, the free movement of capital and the free movement of people are indivisible.

I think though that you also have to take into account: volume, the dilution of culture, service/language provision, housing costs/provision, lowering pay, opportunities for the young, and training your own people first before you bring in others etc. e.g. the result - 5,000,000 Brits claiming benefits, 1,500,000 of them perfectly capable of being trained/working.

 

This is some of what the report identifies i.e. that the 'benefits of immigration' should not just be measured in terms of GDP, there are other prices being paid, and there is a balance to be had.

[Hugh Jampton]

The British Government is now opening a discussion which has been on the street for over 40 yrs. The countries like Australia still gets the cream and we get the rest.

My Aussies friends could not believe how black and Asian parts of London were and were pleased with their immigration policies

[Sebrof]

I think, I think, that free trade, the free movement of capital and the free movement of people are indivisible.

I think though that you also have to take into account: volume, the dilution of culture, service/language provision, housing costs/provision, lowering pay, opportunities for the young, and training your own people first before you bring in others etc. e.g. the result - 5,000,000 Brits claiming benefits, 1,500,000 of them perfectly capable of being trained/working.

 

This is some of what the report identifies i.e. that the 'benefits of immigration' should not just be measured in terms of GDP, there are other prices being paid, and there is a balance to be had.

 

Quite agree. The UK is probably headed for a disastrous recession, caused in large measure by a housing bubble that was itself largely caused by massive immigration in the past four years.

 

It's worth remembering that England is the fourth most densely populated country in the world (much denser that China or India) and there is a limit to how many people the country can comfortably support. That limit was probably reached in about 1930.

 

Sebrof

[triskelion]

Predominately Tory committee thinks there are too many foreigners. A shock result, that one.

 

'And there was a "clear danger" immigration had hit training and apprenticeships offered to British workers'

-So, in other words, they have no evidence that it has, they are just worried about it happening. Wasn't there outcry in a thread here recently about foreign workers on training schemes, though it later became apparent that it was three at most?

 

'The report claims that if net immigration of 190,000 people per year continued over the next 20 years, it would contribute to a 10% increase in house prices'

-Why would current trends continue? Polish workers are already starting to move back to Poland, there is not greater demand to work in Britain from other EU members and there is little prospect of the EU expanding very much over that time.

 

'The available evidence suggests that immigration has had a small negative impact on the lowest-paid workers in the UK and a small positive impact on the earnings of higher-paid workers'

-'Higher-paid' is a very vague term, but I can't possibly see why anyone would think immigration would increase the amount of money lowest-paid workers get. Its hardly going to push them into training or better jobs is it? A small negative impact for the very-lowest paid workers is hardly a strong argument against immigration, and their work in manufacturing has prevented some businesses having to move production to China, which would have been much worse for the economy.

Furthermore, the report says: "Resident workers whose wages have been adversely affected by immigration are likely to include a significant proportion of previous immigrants and workers from ethnic minority groups," suggesting that Britons are even less effected.

 

'In the long run, the economic impacts of immigration on the resident population are likely to be fairly small.'

-Oh, this doesn't really feed into the right-wing angle does it?

 

'Consumers may also benefit from immigration through lower prices. Taxpayers are likely to benefit from lower costs of public services.'

-Neither does this

 

According to the BBC article, in 2005 there were only 400,915 foreign workers in the UK. This is hardly going to reponsible for 5 000 000 unemployed, is it Albert?

 

Reading through the report's conclusions, it is clear that they did not have anywhere near enough information to actually come up with anything definitive, and as a result they mostly say the Government should continue to keep an eye on this.

 

Having lived in Australia I cannot possibly see why people would rather live there than the UK, except maybe (maybe) the weather.

[thesultanofsheight]

The countries like Australia still gets the cream and we get the rest. My Aussies friends could not believe how black and Asian parts of London were and were pleased with their immigration policies

 

Are you suggesting that hords blacks and asians are proof that the UK is not getting the cream? Did you get out and check their qualifications or did you arrive at that conclusion just by using your eyes. I really can't believe that post.

[keyboarder]

The British Government is now opening a discussion which has been on the street for over 40 yrs. The countries like Australia still gets the cream and we get the rest.

My Aussies friends could not believe how black and Asian parts of London were and were pleased with their immigration policies

 

If only we'd listened to Enoch Powell. (Although perhaps they'd never been down Earl's Court Road? Not a lot of cream down there either......... )

[feelslikeitshould]

The British Government is now opening a discussion which has been on the street for over 40 yrs. The countries like Australia still gets the cream and we get the rest.

My Aussies friends could not believe how black and Asian parts of London were and were pleased with their immigration policies

 

Ahh yes, Australia, what great policies they have. If you count taking native Aboriginal babies away from their parent to give to immigrant white families.

 

I don't have a problem with most immigrants, I think if the islands work permit system worked, we'd have quite a good balance. I can't stand lazy tossers who think the world owes them a favour, complaining that there are no jobs when they have no intention of dragging themselves away from Jeremy Kyle long enough to get one. If there was no immigrant labour, the standard of workmanship and productivity rate over here would drop dramatically.

[Static]

The British Government is now opening a discussion which has been on the street for over 40 yrs. The countries like Australia still gets the cream and we get the rest.

My Aussies friends could not believe how black and Asian parts of London were and were pleased with their immigration policies

 

Ahh yes, Australia, what great policies they have. If you count taking native Aboriginal babies away from their parent to give to immigrant white families.

 

I don't have a problem with most immigrants, I think if the islands work permit system worked, we'd have quite a good balance. I can't stand lazy tossers who think the world owes them a favour, complaining that there are no jobs when they have no intention of dragging themselves away from Jeremy Kyle long enough to get one. If there was no immigrant labour, the standard of workmanship and productivity rate over here would drop dramatically.

 

to what she said!

[cheeky boy]

The British Government is now opening a discussion which has been on the street for over 40 yrs. The countries like Australia still gets the cream and we get the rest.

My Aussies friends could not believe how black and Asian parts of London were and were pleased with their immigration policies

 

Ahh yes, Australia, what great policies they have. If you count taking native Aboriginal babies away from their parent to give to immigrant white families.

 

I don't have a problem with most immigrants, I think if the islands work permit system worked, we'd have quite a good balance. I can't stand lazy tossers who think the world owes them a favour, complaining that there are no jobs when they have no intention of dragging themselves away from Jeremy Kyle long enough to get one. If there was no immigrant labour, the standard of workmanship and productivity rate over here would drop dramatically.

 

 

Well said

 

The problem is that there will always be a proportion of the unemployed that are unemployable, so if you are trying to staff a business its no use using these people

 

Most employers would always chooses a keen immigrant over some track-suited surly yob

 

Perhaps the issue should be how we get these useless articles to make valid contribution to society

[feelslikeitshould]

The problem is that there will always be a proportion of the unemployed that are unemployable, so if you are trying to staff a business its no use using these people

 

Most employers would always chooses a keen immigrant over some track-suited surly yob

 

Perhaps the issue should be how we get these useless articles to make valid contribution to society

 

The unemployable are a product of the world we live in, especially on the island. Everyone has got it so good that there are very few people willing to make any effort above the bare minimum. There is no competition, everyone is given a fair chance at everything which dulls the mind and skills of those who would've thrived in an environment where they are regularly challenged. It starts at a young age, as an example: A child gets picked to represent the school one year at something they excel at, the next year, despite being one of the best candidates the school has to offer, they are excluded from the 'competition' because they were picked the year before. Where is the reward for that child? Why be satisfied with creating a whole culture of mediocrity because a few lazy sods can't be arsed applying themselves, yet still want all the perks?

[sausage]

Great documentary on as part of the white season recently.

 

Cameras followed a middle aged polish guy as he took a 36 hour coach journey to live in the north of England in a small flat with his sister.

 

Within the week he had a job on a local farm, ten hours a day picking squashes, getting payed £7.50 an hour. Acknowledged it was hard work but was very happy with the wage.

 

Cameras then interview a few brits outside the local job centre, tracksuit bottoms, baseball caps and cans of stella all present. Interview went along the lines of

 

'So why are you unable to get a job ?'

 

'Its coz of all the foreigners coming over, they work for like 50p an hour so there is no jobs for us to do'

 

'OK if I said I could get you a job starting tomorrow for £7.50 an hour would you be interested ?'

 

'Err might be, what is it?'

 

'Picking squash on a local farm'

 

'No way I am not doing that, I would rather sign on'

 

'Why is that'

 

'Coz I am not doing that job and its full of foreigners' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If people are prepared to work, abide by the law and contribute it shouldnt matter a fuck where they are from. I would rather have 100 asians/europeans/martians in this country who are willing to work than one lazy, obnoxious, arrogant little british shit whose only contribution to society is to maintain blue wkd demand, the sovereign ring market and knock out a few kids along the way.

 

And all this bullshit about 'the pakis come here and they get given all the best houses and benefits etc' Absolute bollocks, people with nice houses, cars etc etc generally (but not always!) have them because they work fuckin hard for them !!

[Albert Tatlock]

Absolute bollocks, people with nice houses, cars etc etc generally (but not always!) have them because they work fuckin hard for them !!

Or often work in the finance sector betting other people's money with no risk to themselves, or selling loans to people who can't afford them etc. at the expense of everyone else including those who have generally worked hard to get where they are - like we saw in the Greed Game on BBC2 tonight.

[Skeddan]

Having lived in Australia I cannot possibly see why people would rather live there than the UK, except maybe (maybe) the weather.

Depends where you are - Melbourne has a lot going for it. Among other reasons are fact you don't have miserable pommies always taking about their property speculations and being careworn, no Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, NuLabour and Nanny statism, there is vastly better customer service without call centre hell that can drive one insane, better banking systems, people generally leave the office at 5pm rather than work silly hours, restaurants are generally better, streets are safer....

 

IMO NZ can have even more advantages - no capital gains tax, easy hop to (other) Pacific Islands, low corruption, high protection of civil liberties and human rights, a govt that is not in pocket of Bush, no 'war on terror' to speak of (apart from French blowing up Greenpeace ships), 70% of energy from renewables, fantastic outdoors in easy reach of city, low cost of living, virtually no homeless and scammers mithering on the streets, and high social capital.

 

Simple subjective assessment is people are generally happier and less stressed and uptight. Reasons enough?