Do Mhks Read This Board?

[Skeddan]

AT, I think your suggestion has merit. However the 'question' thread is the place to start. One has to walk before can run. Having a Local Politics section, 'fencing' for higher standard of discussion (i.e. no flaming and silly stuff) would be the first step to getting serious discussion underway. Once got that ball rolling, then can establish a basis for discussions in the questions thread. How the 'response thread' is managed, who moderates, etc. is phase II.

 

In previous threads there are many posts which are of value, but also a number which simply detract and lower the standard of debate or go off topic at tangents. If look at water fluoridation, scallops, leisure and tourism, I think can see that with decent editorial there is good stuff there. IMO that editorial would be best by self-editorial through having stricter ground rules on some topics. From there can see how responsible people can be and what standard emerges, and can evaluate from there.

 

Whether or not MHKs participate and how they do so, IMO there would be value in having an option for 'fencing' some discussions.

[Albert Tatlock]

...(i.e. no flaming and silly stuff) would be the first step to getting serious discussion underway. Once got that ball rolling, then can establish a basis for discussions in the questions thread. How the 'response thread' is managed, who moderates, etc. is phase II...

Many issues have so called 'tangents' or links e.g. e-borders or smoking v civil liberties; immigration v racism etc. etc. One mans 'tangent' is often another mans's 'thinking outside the box'. Debating the question to ask, suggesting rewording to best take into account (or discount) these so called 'tangents' such as these examples, IMO needs to be done prior to the questions being finally agreed.

 

I still say you are fundamentally overestimating the time and inclination interviewees will take to respond or even to read a 5/6/7/8 page thread (were points are often repeated or put a different way even by 'sensible' posters) - without being asked concise questions (previously debated) and formed at the end of a 'question thread'.

 

If we are seriously seeking to get senior politicians, civil servants, or even local celebrities etc. to respond to issues/questions raised on here - they need to feel 'protected', and use their time efficiently. If it worked any other way, they would be surely be on here already. Some are, but look at their concise one-off responses, and following dissapearance - Derek Flint, John Shimmin and Dudley Butt being prime examples.

[Skeddan]

OK, so how do you suggest making a start?

 

Fine to have a 'distillation' for 'Question Time' perhaps in form you suggest. But what is the foundation you propose working with as the debate/ discussion / question thread? Threads as at present or something a bit more focussed towards this - and if so how? What do you propose, and what do you suggest as practical, pragmatic and realisable first steps?

[Albert Tatlock]

OK, so how do you suggest making a start?

 

Fine to have a 'distillation' for 'Question Time' perhaps in form you suggest. But what is the foundation you propose working with as the debate/ discussion / question thread? Threads as at present or something a bit more focussed towards this - and if so how? What do you propose, and what do you suggest as practical, pragmatic and realisable first steps?

Start with people likely to be willing to respond (e.g. approach Dudley Butt, John Shimmin, Derek Flint etc.). Build up a track record before approaching others.

• New separate section of the forum generated (Call it 'Question/Answer Time' or whatever).
  
• Monday: 'Question of the Week' thread generated in normal section (e.g. in local news) and pinned. Moderator determined.
  
• Monday-Friday: Wording of Question(s) of the week agreed - finalised by moderator. Formal approach to person/people as to whether they would be willing to answer the question(s) of the week. (This might best be done by a moderator or even better John Wright if he was willing).
  
• Friday: Question(s) emailed to those willing to answer.
  
• Whenever: Question(s) and received response posted in 'Question/Answer Time' section.
  
• Debate continues if required in original relevant 'Question of the week' thread.
  
• If interviewees want to subsequently comment, they can formally add additional response to their answer in the new 'Question/Answer Time' section.
  

[P.K.]

Start with people likely to be willing to respond (e.g. approach Dudley Butt, John Shimmin, Derek Flint etc.). Build up a track record before approaching others.

• New separate section of the forum generated (Call it 'Question/Answer Time' or whatever).
  
• Monday: 'Question of the Week' thread generated in normal section (e.g. in local news) and pinned. Moderator determined.
  
• Monday-Friday: Wording of Question(s) of the week agreed - finalised by moderator. Formal approach to person/people as to whether they would be willing to answer the question(s) of the week. (This might best be done by a moderator or even better John Wright if he was willing).
  
• Friday: Question(s) emailed to those willing to answer.
  
• Whenever: Question(s) and received response posted in 'Question/Answer Time' section.
  
• Debate continues if required in original relevant 'Question of the week' thread.
  
• If interviewees want to subsequently comment, they can formally add additional response to their answer in the new 'Question/Answer Time' section.
  

Come off it Albert, that's all about as pointless as turning up at a forum get-together and then not introducing yourself to the people there...

 

With internet forums being anonymous and open to all no politician is ever going to put themselves under that kind of spotlight as they could end up answering questions from Ng in Adelaide. Tell you what, why not try something radical like that nice Tony Blair (who you insist on calling a liar) and get the poliicians up on their hind legs in front of their electorate! Oh whoops, a lot of them aren't elected and are therefore unaccountable. Never mind....

[Albert Tatlock]

Come off it Albert, that's all about as pointless as turning up at a forum get-together and then not introducing yourself to the people there...

 

With internet forums being anonymous and open to all no politician is ever going to put themselves under that kind of spotlight as they could end up answering questions from Ng in Adelaide....

Go back to start. Read thread. Do not collect £200.

[Skeddan]

Nice one. I'd just suggest a slightly different way of getting started.

 

* New separate section of the forum generated ('Local Politics').

* Monday: 'QuestionS of the Week' thread generated in normal section (e.g. in local news) and pinned. Moderator determined.

 

etc.

 

If Ministers /MHKs don't want to answer, then they can give 'no comment'. Maybe MR and Stu might take up the issues.

 

i.e. you don't need prior agreement / expression of interest from MHKs.

 

What is needed are the questions and issues which are valid and of interest to MF members to be generated, refined and presented. I'd imagine at last resort could find people in relevant constituencies to write to their MHK with the relevant questions and so approach it that way. MHKs would soon discover might as well answer the email questions or appear in the forums(!).

 

Initially I wouldn't set a deadline, but rather start with a subforum where can make a start in some discussions and generating questions (Not hard to do, but needs to be done). Then when generated some sensible questions/refined some issues, give it a go. Shame on MHKs if they don't respond to sensible legitimate questions - so why the need to ask permission first? Just name and shame if they refuse to respond.

 

The weak point that needs dealing with is in generating, refining and managing the discussion to get questions / issues without ending up with just scrapping - and in manner which is not censorial of divergent and critical views. That IMO is the starting point. Having a subforum as you suggest would I think be the very first step. Then at least can have something to show MHKs what type of questions they might be expected to answer rather than inviting them 'blind'.

[Albert Tatlock]

Nice one. I'd just suggest a slightly different way of getting started.

 

* New separate section of the forum generated ('Local Politics')...

It might not be just about local politics, it could be about many issues: police catching speeders, data protection, TT marshalling etc, etc. too.

[Skeddan]

OK - but it is still 'Local Politics' in terms of issues / questions being raised with politicians. If the issue does not involve political accountability, some legislative remedy, policy suggestions or queries etc. what is the point? All the issues you mention deal with local politics. Maybe some of the TT Marshalling discussion might start off in Local News or General, but out of this might come the relevant political matters to be put to MHKs.

 

Besides issue of what to call the subforum, is this feasible, doable for MF admins? Don't want to have more subforums than necessary, and naturally a reluctance to add another, but given coverage of Photography, Films etc. it seems reasonable enough - but that is a decision in hands of admins.

[Albert Tatlock]

but that is a decision in hands of admins.

...sounds like a plan.

[P.K.]

Go back to start. Read thread. Do not collect £200.

Ahhhh... The Master can read the human mind....

 

Tell you what though - don't give up the day job.

[Skeddan]

...sounds like a plan.

Not quite yet. OK, so a subforum request - but should clarify the request and suggestion a bit further for admins:-

 

1. called 'Local Politics' ?

2. in 'Current Affairs' ? Below 'Local News'? (or somewhere else?)

3. should it be visible to guests or logged in members only (like 'Testing' and 'Support Questions and Feedback')?

4. any special groundrules - e.g 'rules for posting' / pinned notice as in Classified Ads, or 'fencing' of some kind?

5. should there be a thread and/or poll to gauge interest in having such a subforum beforehand?

 

ans - or other mods reading this - any comments or pointers??

 

*I'd think 'Local Politics' in Current Affairs rather than elsewhere, visible to all.

*Groundrules could be a matter to be discussed in a thread in the subforum and could come out of that.

*Previous discussions show there is an interest in something along the lines this is going towards, so maybe a poll is not necessary. If it fizzles and dies after a few months trial, then the subforum could be closed and threads could be folded into 'Local News' or 'General'. If so, it keeps it simple and straightforward.

 

BTW if MHKs do read posts in MF as you say, then this would surely give more focus and encourage them by enabling them to find the relevant topics. Some 'political' discussions spin out of other threads which might be missed, but which could be taken up in a thread in this 'Local Politics' subforum.

[nipper]

What difference does it possibly make if every MHK and MLC in the land read these forums, and contributed and debated and even - God forbid - had their minds changed.

 

This bleating simply displays a misunderstanding and naivety of how this Island works that is all too common. MHKs and Tynwald are pretty powerless except when it comes to extreme and ridiculous trivia.

 

For example, our wonderful all powerful all caring Tynwald passed an Act to allow 16 year olds to vote. The MHKs go round the world and other commonwealth countries, displaying their pomposity at this example of their fine work.

 

In all my years involved with people, politics, politicians and indeed these forums I have never once - not fucking once - ever heard someone wanting the law changed to enable 16 year olds to vote. And yet they did it anyway. A cheap ridiculous stupid ego boosting gimmick.

 

God bless our politicians and their big salries and their big pensions. And their super inflated egos.

 

What on earth would we do without them.

[Skeddan]

Come off it Albert, that's all about as pointless as turning up at a forum get-together and then not introducing yourself to the people there...

 

With internet forums being anonymous and open to all no politician is ever going to put themselves under that kind of spotlight as they could end up answering questions from Ng in Adelaide. Tell you what, why not try something radical like that nice Tony Blair (who you insist on calling a liar) and get the poliicians up on their hind legs in front of their electorate! Oh whoops, a lot of them aren't elected and are therefore unaccountable. Never mind....

P.K. I don't fully understand the issue here. Is it a bad thing to know where politicians stand on issues, or to answer questions? If Ng in Adelaide raises a valid point, even if not Manx, it might well be relevant. Maybe the question will come from Ng, and could be one that is on the mark and makes a valuable contribution - but if it is uninformed, irrelevant, or trolling, it wouldn't go further. In any event the MHKs can choose not to answer. Politicians are often interviewed by foreign journalists - most don't fear being put in the spotlight as you suggest - at least not in most democracies.

 

It's not to say that maybe there ought to be some vetting or restrictions. Maybe there ought to be a final poll of what goes through by non-anonymous members who are verified as being in IoM. That is a discussion maybe should have. Rather than just dismiss whole thing as pointless, it would be good to have some constructive suggestions to address the concerns you raise.

[Mr. Sausages]

I think you're getting too caught up in the world of internet forums. They're just not that relevant to most people, and not a very good place to have a serious debate.

 

Unless they all actively take part, it's pointless, and politicians are not going to be attracted to a world where everything is in writing, and easily quotable for years, and primarily populated by geeks. Once they make one response in an "offical politics" type forum, they'd be committed to replying to everything, for fear of being perceived to be avoiding issues etc, when in reality they're pc at home keeps crashing, or they can't remember which button made the interwebnet work, or they're on holiday or something.

 

You can always write to, email, or ring your MHK if you've something to discuss.