Newsbot Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 The Isle of Man's Chief Minister pays tribute to Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, who is to retire later this year. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7327517.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Maybe he should have waited to see what the outcome of the investigation into his financial dealings were until he decided to praise him. Like Charlie Haughey before him he's a liar and a brown paper bag merchant - then again he is a politican... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Boy, cynicism towards politicians is strong at the moment isn't it. I suppose with some justification. But he did help bring about a peace process, and did help transform Ireland's economy. He helped - didn't do it himself, many others were involved. But its too easy, and wrong, to say anyone could have done what he did. If he was corrupt in one part of his life - well he should reap what he sowed there, but the fruits of his work else where are formidible. I hope he won't only be remembered for brown envelopes, there is more to the man than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 he probably banks overhere, hence the praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 'Peace protest'? Surely that should be 'peace process'? Does Bertie Ahern deserve special praise for his role in the peace process? Seems to me that Brooke, Major, Trimble, Blair, Mowlam, Hain, Hulme, Adams, McGuinness, Clinton, Reynolds, and even Paisley FFS can all take a bit of credit for what was probably bound to happen once the Maggot Hatcher was removed from office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 he probably banks overhere, hence the praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 While he and Blair did contribute and helped push it over the finishing line, 90% of the work for the peace process was done by Albert Reynolds and others (including John Major believe it or not). WRT the economy - a chimpanzee, strategically shaved and put in a suit could have done exactly the same thing. He and his cronies were just in the right place at the right time. The biggest factor in changing the face of the Irish economy was the return of many immigrants who had left during the 80's brain drain. They brought experience, skills and money back and this coupled with a huge EU investment was the genesis of the Celtic Tiger. The politicians may claim credit for it but they hadn't a fucking clue what was happening and what to do with all the new found money (and now the Tiger is on his last legs they have no idea how to fix it). Proof of this is that the huge excess tax revenues have now been squandered and Ireland is left with the legacy of an appalling health service (surely the worst in Western Europe), a transport network that is on it's knees, and a under-funded police force unable to cope with the spiralling gang wars in Dublin, Limerick and Cork. Nothing was put by for a rainy day but Ahern like many politicans fed well while the trough was full. The disgusting part about it is that he has taken so long to finally resign despite lying and getting found out numerous times during the investigations - and even if he's found guilty by the tribunal, he won't lose his pension and he won't go to prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yep - The Republic couldn't help but do well once it and the UK joined the EU - because up until then the UK's vindictive taxes on Irish exports meant that the country's only income was the money being sent home by the legions of workers forced into exile. Once the Irish could trade freely and had money to invest in their own industry they were bound to see growth. The very wise use of EU grants to improve infrastructure build up one of the best education systems in the world also helped. If only we had a crime rate as low as the Republic of Ireland's; according to the last WHO report their rate of violent assaults had fallen from 1.38 per 100,000 in 2000 to a mere 0.32 per 100,000 in 2005. By some way, the Republic is the safest country in Europe. Transport investment in Ireland continues to improve (contrast UK), with 18 billion euro being invested in improving the road network (which is already pretty impressive) and 16 billion for trains, including the new Dublin Metro and Western Rail Corridor. The 2007 Health Consumer Powerhouse Euro Health Consumer Index report ranked Ireland's public health system 16th out of 29 European countries. One place above the United Kingdom. Bertie Ahern has been, financially, a fantastic Taoiseach. It remains to be seen if he was as crooked in his private tax arrangements as is alleged, bringing peace to Northern Ireland was always going to be a lot easier once Thatcher had been sidelined, economic success was always going to be achievable once the economic war was over and the EU grants started to pay dividends, but nevertheless, Bertie Ahern was more than a shaved monkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 If only we had a crime rate as low as the Republic of Ireland's; according to the last WHO report their rate of violent assaults had fallen from 1.38 per 100,000 in 2000 to a mere 0.32 per 100,000 in 2005. By some way, the Republic is the safest country in Europe. It'll be interesting to see the updated statistics after the gang violence of the past couple of years. Transport investment in Ireland continues to improve (contrast UK), with 18 billion euro being invested in improving the road network (which is already pretty impressive) and 16 billion for trains, including the new Dublin Metro and Western Rail Corridor. Ever tried driving though Dublin at any time between 5am and 8pm? The Port Tunnel debacle? A Metro system that was under sized from day one and the two existing lines don't even meet. The main airport that's creaking at the seams - never mind the fact that it's one of the only airports (if not the only one) for a capital city in Europe that doesn't have a rail link to the city it serves. And now there's plans to move the City port before they build the roads and rail network to support it? The 2007 Health Consumer Powerhouse Euro Health Consumer Index report ranked Ireland's public health system 16th out of 29 European countries. One place above the United Kingdom. Helen Keller must have helped with that survey. Speak to anyone who's had the misfortune to have to use the public health system in Ireland. The UK NHS for all it's failings is streets ahead of it. The doctors and nurses are fab but the infrastructure and the structure of the health authorities is a mess. The main children's hospital has to rely on charitable donations to stay open. Bertie Ahern has been, financially, a fantastic Taoiseach. It remains to be seen if he was as crooked in his private tax arrangements as is alleged, bringing peace to Northern Ireland was always going to be a lot easier once Thatcher had been sidelined, economic success was always going to be achievable once the economic war was over and the EU grants started to pay dividends, but nevertheless, Bertie Ahern was more than a shaved monkey. I disagree - he's been a lucky Taoiseach. With all the billions of extra tax revenue there's nothing to show for it. And I'll think history will show a dishonest and greedy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Consider the rail links from Heathrow, Luton, Stanstead, Gatwick, London City, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Amsterdam Schipol, Paris Charles de Gaulle, New York Kennedy, Chicago O' Hare, Tokyo Narita, Bangkok, New Delhi, and in fact, almost any other big airport in the world to their respective city centres. Are you saying that any of these rail links are better than a taxi or bus into Dublin? As for the airport itself, well, no it isn't Singapore, but its hardly Heathrow either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 If only we had a crime rate as low as the Republic of Ireland's; according to the last WHO report their rate of violent assaults had fallen from 1.38 per 100,000 in 2000 to a mere 0.32 per 100,000 in 2005. By some way, the Republic is the safest country in Europe. Isn't that reported crime rate? Unreported assault rates may be far higher and non-reporting might be especially high in Ireland for cultural reasons. I don't know if sexual assault is categorised as violent (I'd think so). There are also quite a few Catholic priests whose assaults are not reported and don't appear on crime stats. It's not necessarily the safest place if you're a nice sweet young boy. Consider the rail links from ..... Auckland doesn't have a rail link from the airport (it's not the capital, but is the largest city in NZ). Just about the same population size too, (4m national, 1m approx for AKL and DUB). You can get a shuttle bus to drop you off at your door in centre within 30-50 mins for abt. £6.00. (It takes that long just to get out of Heathrow). Cost of an uneconomic train service would be prohibitive, and then would be less convenient. I agree with Freggyragh - why assume rail link like this is a sign of being 'advanced' or better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 WRT the economy - a chimpanzee, strategically shaved and put in a suit could have done exactly the same thing. He and his cronies were just in the right place at the right time. The biggest factor in changing the face of the Irish economy was the return of many immigrants who had left during the 80's brain drain. They brought experience, skills and money back and this coupled with a huge EU investment was the genesis of the Celtic Tiger. The politicians may claim credit for it but they hadn't a fucking clue what was happening and what to do with all the new found money (and now the Tiger is on his last legs they have no idea how to fix it). Proof of this is that the huge excess tax revenues have now been squandered and Ireland is left with the legacy of an appalling health service (surely the worst in Western Europe), a transport network that is on it's knees, and a under-funded police force unable to cope with the spiralling gang wars in Dublin, Limerick and Cork. Nothing was put by for a rainy day but Ahern like many politicans fed well while the trough was full. The "genesis" of the "Celtic Tiger" had f-all to do with "returning immigrants" as far as I am concerned. Seduced by EU handouts we dropped a high-tech first-rate technical call centre onto what turned out to be a low-tech, third-rate, third world infrastructure with disastrous results. No surprises there then. If only we had a crime rate as low as the Republic of Ireland's; according to the last WHO report their rate of violent assaults had fallen from 1.38 per 100,000 in 2000 to a mere 0.32 per 100,000 in 2005. By some way, the Republic is the safest country in Europe. So no-one has anything worth nicking and the locals couldn't be bothered anyway. Great.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeoneday Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Consider the rail links from Heathrow, Luton, Stanstead, Gatwick, London City, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Amsterdam Schipol, Paris Charles de Gaulle, New York Kennedy, Chicago O' Hare, Tokyo Narita, Bangkok, New Delhi, and in fact, almost any other big airport in the world to their respective city centres. Are you saying that any of these rail links are better than a taxi or bus into Dublin? Yes yes yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoid Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The 'Celtic Tiger' was/is based on foreign investment and TNCs, mainly American ones. The Irish government lifted its protectionist polices in the 60s and began to allow same into the country. Tax breaks were afforded to TNCs setting up in rural areas and this combined with cheap, wellp-educated labour made for a great incentive to locate factories, etc in Ireland. Financial success was built on hi-tec TNCs, the software industry in particular was essential. Returning ex-pats and EU assistance certainly contributed but it's the TNCs that really changed things so drastically. I agree with the structural criticisms, particularly the health service. Despite the statistics offered above, it's in bits and has actually been in steady decline under Ahern's stewardship. Fianna Fail are not big on social services, they, and especially their long term governmental partners, the Progressive Democrats, are very much laissez-faire, Ayn Rand types, IMHO. The 'Celtic Tiger' has seen the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and it's all good for Bertie and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 And they also have a tourist industry which they seem to market well and invest in........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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