[BBC News] Man, 46, injured in street attack

[Skeddan]

Maybe the police need to refocus too, they hunt the druggies saying it leads to other crimes, such as burglary and muggings, well that may be the case, but these crimes should be classed as such..

From the sound of some of these unprovoked attacks it sounds like the attacker went completely mental - way beyond normal human type aggression. Going back to beat someone up a bit more... that kind of stuff.

 

Did anyone see the Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares with the Italian restaurant and the bodybuilder guy who went mental in his attack of the debt-collector? Seeing his behaviour, build etc., I suspect steroids had a big part in it.

 

It might be that steroids and 'roid rage' are also a factor in such attacks. I came across this article Clicky- a bit old - but it suggests a huge increase and a real problem - including in Merseyside - "In Merseyside and Cheshire in 2003, the largest single group of new clients for needle exchanges were steroid users" The drugs that might be coming over which are responsible might not just be the typical 'druggies' ones.

 

I'd speculate that perhaps steroid use might perhaps be an unrecognised underlying source of this problem - especially when mixed with alcohol - it only takes a few. No excuse - but something that maybe a problem to be really clamping down on like other drugs. (and maybe make it a class B drug like amphetamines).

[Cret]

I think a lot of it is probably results from something like the following "recipe":

 

Testosterone +

Inability to handle alcohol/drugs +

Lack of morals +

Wanting to feel 'hard' (due to perhaps having a tiny penis?) +

No fear of consequences

[Amadeus]

Did anyone see the Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares with the Italian restaurant and the bodybuilder guy who went mental in his attack of the debt-collector? Seeing his behaviour, build etc., I suspect steroids had a big part in it.

Bit of an animal, isn't he?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQaE9GvDVgU

[Skeddan]

Cret, your formula sounds a bit like what you get from taking steroids. (isn't the tiny penis one of the things that happens?)

 

Also the 'wanting to feel hard' syndrome is exactly what seems to be driving increased use of steroids by 'lads' in Merseyside.

 

I'm not saying you can put it all down to steroids. But maybe it plays a part in the problem. If so, then identifying it and cracking down on this would help deal with the assaults and this kind of aggression more effectively.

 

Amadeus, thanks for the link. Wow, seeing it again - rage. If that's what steroids can bring on, and there's a big problem with steroids in the Northwest of England, then I'd be concerned.

[Cret]

I'm sure the use of steroids might be a factor in some cases but I'd imagine it's probably not that common.

 

I suspect more often than not it's lads who think they're really hard doing this, ie attacking someone who won't see it coming, probably two on one, so that they can then brag how hard they are to their mates as some form of medeival pissing competition.

 

The one that got identified out of the two who attacked me, is renowned for being close at hand when this sort of thing happens, and apparently his father is exactly the same. What can you expect if they've been brought up with that sort of behaviour being deemed as acceptable or 'normal'?

[gazza]

well i had 2 broken noses in the space of 6 months, same person and 6 of his mates trying to give me a kicking on the floor

both times unprovoked attacks, yes i do know him or should i say know who he is, but never had any dealing with him,

or done out to provoke an attack

 

what pisses me off is, it went to court and as he pleded guilty to it thay went stright to sentencing,(which i was never told about till i read it in the paper

what i want to know is why the hell can he give a defence in court and say a load of lies which thay in turn print in the paper

and suddleny hes the victum and im the bad person,

 

still haveing to watch me back everytime i go out, and it prob be only a matter of time till it happins again, and it prob be me that ends up in court next time beacuse after 2 broken noses and footprints on me head, it wont be happing again,

been like this for nearly a year now,

 

thing is you see them on there own and thay wont come near, get 2 or 3 of them and there real hard men

[Skeddan]

The thugs doing these kinds of attacks need dealing with, but the things that might lead to these kinds of assault also need dealing with. If not, then possibly there is a danger of an 'epidemic' of violent assaults.

 

You have to drain the swamp as well as fighting the crocodiles.

 

I'm sure the use of steroids might be a factor in some cases but I'd imagine it's probably not that common.

It's a major public health concern just over the water - and some of the problem might be spreading over...

 

The growing trend for young men to use steroids to enhance their self-image is the subject of a conference being held in Liverpool....The event has been organised by The Centre for Public Health at John Moores University in Liverpool.

 

Head of Substance Use at the Centre Jim McVeigh said the increasing use of such drugs was a major public health issue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7029310.stm

 

US researchers, who looked at the effect of anabolic steroids on hamsters, suggest the drugs 'flip a switch' and trigger lasting aggression. ... The effects of steroid may last for at least two years, and cause permanent brain changes, the Behavioral Neuroscience study warns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4739030.stm

 

Yes there are some just plain ordinary bullies who like to be hard men. There may also be yoofs getting into steroids and it only takes a dozen or so roiders to be a real menace.

 

Given the problem is getting worse and worse in Merseyside, I'd think it only a matter of time before it seeps over to IoM - like other drugs - if it hasn't already.

 

gazza - ideally you'd be able to get a restraining order against these thugs - IMO not allowing them to come within 10 miles of you. Also I don't know the system there - do they do psych assessments of such offenders, a victim impact report and is there anything like restorative justice?

[Lonan3]

Steroids are extremely common on the Isle of Man. Anyone who's into bodybuilding could probably tell you exactly where to get whatever you wanted.

[ai_Droid]

I think a lot of it is probably results from something like the following "recipe":

Testosterone +

Inability to handle alcohol/drugs +

Lack of morals +

Wanting to feel 'hard' (due to perhaps having a tiny penis?) +

No fear of consequences

 

+ boredom

 

Sad to hear its so common though, I've had a few close shaves but nothing serious and from the talk here that sounds like it's simply good luck by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

We need more coppers, it's as simple as that, and it's one rising public expense that I doubt anyone objects too, right?

[Skeddan]

Steroids are extremely common on the Isle of Man. Anyone who's into bodybuilding could probably tell you exactly where to get whatever you wanted.

If so - and I'd be inclined to believe it - then this should be a serious concern - both as a public health issue and in terms of assaults and other violent offending. See for example -

 

http://www.drugabuse.gov/researchreports/s...csteroids4.html

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=16223

(and lots more)

 

I'd suggest there should be serious crackdown on steroids. IMO steroids prepared for injection should be classified as Class A drugs (like amphetamines prepared for injection) - and not Class C - and treated as a priority problem in the same way as heroin. If this problem isn't tackled, then there's going to need to be a lot of police and ambulances at the bottom of the cliff.

 

If MHKs are going to get on bandwagons, the problems of steroids and roiders would be one worth getting on to.

[ans]

Heh, steroids. Just another excuse to be an arsehole whenever people feel like it

 

Seriously though, I'd be worried about trying to pigeonhole this kind of attack as a result of steroid abuse without any supporting evidence whatsoever. There are often many factors that contribute to the situation, most of them listed in this thread and I'd like to see more effort concentrated on those elements that are demonstratively related, rather than theoretical causes.

 

A much higher footfall of police officers would go a long way towards reducing the attack toll. It wouldn't eliminate it, and no matter what you do you will still have drunken brawls on the streets, but it would increase the risk of being caught for the little gangs that roam the streets in packs beating up people on their own and would hopefully deter them.

 

It's a big problem out there, and I worry that people are going to start carrying weapons to protect themselves. Not because they shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves, but once the victims start arming themselves, the thugs will too, and they'll have bigger weapons and more of them. It's a free fall from there on it and it needs to be stopped now.

[Miss Take]

Do they have P.C.S.O.s on the Island?

 

They at the very least provide a few more reflective jackets walking / cycling the streets that in a dark alley look a little like police jackets and might be enough to make a would be attacker think twice about making a move.

[Skeddan]

Seriously though, I'd be worried about trying to pigeonhole this kind of attack as a result of steroid abuse without any supporting evidence whatsoever. There are often many factors that contribute to the situation, most of them listed in this thread and I'd like to see more effort concentrated on those elements that are demonstratively related, rather than theoretical causes.

ans, I don't disagree if you are suggesting a need for research into what factors are related. Of course all such offending is not going to be down to steroid abuse. Rather it could be one strand to the problem - maybe not a very big one, maybe one of the big factors. However the very serious 'epidemic' and problems of steroid abuse seen in Merseyside and elsewhere appears to be 'under the radar' in IoM. There seems to be reason to consider it might be a problem, and if overlooked and not given attention then very likely it will become one.

 

There is a demonstrable relationship between steroids and aggression. Maybe none of the attacks to date are linked with steroids, but if you don't know and don't do anything to address the threat steroids pose, then it's inviting trouble. There's good enough reason for a crackdown on any steroid abuse that there may be - and good enough reason to look into the factors involved in this problem, including the nature and extent of steroid abuse in IoM (and visitors who offend). With issues like this by the time it is apparent by hitting you in the face as a problem, it is already tipped over the cliff. Better to put up fences and not wait for casualties to mount up.

 

As for effort, it might be relatively little. Some measures that might be considered: Re-classifying steroids as Class A drugs (which there is reason to do given the manic aggression it can cause); Urine testing for steroids of persons arrested for assaults and aggressive behaviours; Public health campaign targeting bodybuilders, schools, etc. on the harm caused by steroids; Voluntary steroid screening by gyms as membership requirement; Deterrence with stiff prison sentences for steroid dealers, importers etc. Nip it in the bud, even if not already a major problem. If it stops just one or two serious assaults it would be worthwhile. (Court costs, prison costs, harm to victims, police time etc. - let alone medical costs of treating damage steroids can cause users, etc.)

 

The cost of giving this some priority is minor compared with the cost and damage if steroid abuse is not treated seriously.

 

You say violent offending is a 'big problem out there'. The way to deal with this is a multifaceted approach that addresses all the factors that may be involved - fighting the crocodiles and draining the swamps. You also have to get out there and identify those factors - looking into what has been found to be direct and indirect contributors in other places (e.g. NW England).

 

Are you saying that unlike NW England it is unlikely there is illegal steroid use in IoM and never likely to be? Or perhaps that steroids are harmless and the link to aggression and offending is not to be taken seriously? If not, what is the rationale for being unconcerned and remaining oblivious to what may already be a serious problem?

[ai_Droid]

Don't think it's relevant really, this kind of thing almost always happens around pubs, at pub throwing out time too. It's booze, not roids.

[Cret]

Must admit I'm surprised given what people know in general the amount of harm stuff like that can do that it's not more strictly controlled but then you could say the same about tobacco (except perhaps for the aggression thing).