Rates Demand

[ladybug]

we live in ballabrooie (near ballakermeen school) and our rates are £600 ish also ( i can't quite recall the proper figure but it was a fair amount). Water rates were 270 i think

 

We used to live on Albion terrace in a 5 bedroom house ( houseshare) and the rates there were unbeleivable we had to cut a deal with our landlord as they were so much - £970 for rates and £400 for water

[Skeddan]

1. Anything is better than having services 'managed' by single local government body.

2. some of the smaller local gov areas combine to manage such things as refuse collection etc. The obvious example is the Garff Initiative, by which Lonan, Laxey and Maughold combine to organise things this way and get the job done cheaply and efficiently.

3. Douglas Corpy is beginning to see the sense of it - offering the facilities of the Noble's Library to residents from other parts of the island for a (IMO very reasonable) one-off fee.

...

Thanks Lonan3 . Would you mind clarifying a bit - why do you say anything is better than a single local government body?

 

As I see it a single body - divided into wards/sheadings/local govt areas - might make it easy to combine refuse collection etc. island wide - and be much more 'joined-up' than otherwise.

 

As I said, maybe I'm missing something, but it seems just plain daft to me to have - for example - duplication in the running of libraries rather than an island-wide service serving the community as a whole. I'd think there's not only a whole lot of extra cost in the system and inefficiency - but also this is possibly less accountable and less well managed than otherwise - i.e. little fiefdom syndrome. Had these been commercial enterprises I bet there' have been a spate of mergers and acquisitions. Admittedly the quaint local village library might give way to a facility which offers more with more modern resources, but is that a bad thing? The refuse collection example is just a step towards this - isn't it?

 

Maybe it didn't take too many councillors and meetings at £30 a pop to agree about library fees for residents from other parts - or cost too much to put the system in place, agree refuse collection etc. but it does seem more bureaucratic than makes sense given the scale.

 

What do you see as the problems with a single local government body? (e.g divided into wards, representing local interests fairly across the board). Do you think there might not be ways of addressing these problems so as to get efficiencies without the downside you see in it?

[Cret]

Missed this thread somehow. Was wondering about our rates as we now have a couple of extra rooms on the house.

Is this something that the rates people would know about and have adjusted for accordingly as the completion/signoff of the job would have involved passing on of the relevant info? Or do I need to contact someone directly to ask if there should be an increase?

 

I can't recall if the rates is based on the footprint of the house or purely the number of rooms etc.

[Gags]

The water rates have gone up 10% every year for the last few years. No one has said much about this as the MEA fiasco has taken up all the news space.

I beleive it is possible to demand a water meter, but if you sell your property it will no doubt put off the next buyer.

Luckily I have moved out of the city of Douglas to Patrick mainly as the rates ought to be lower...

[manxblue]

I think that there seems to be more and more levels of beaurocracy (?), local government and "snivel serpants" (Civil Servants), as my Granny calls them !!!, all with very vague job titles, huge pensions and little else to offer.

 

Well that's it, I'm getting fed up now just thinking about it. I propose that "Cheeky Boy" puts his name forward for election, seems to have the right idea about taxation, except (and this is, again, just my opinion) splitting taxes between direct and indirect, just keep it simple and have one "tax".

But Cheeky Boy specified a needed for direct and indirect taxes so that it doesn't weigh too heavily on the poor, which would be the case if you have a single income-based tax.

 

Do you have any evidence for these 'more and more levels of beaurocracy'?

 

Just one question "triskelion", are you a Civil Servant ?.

 

Still waiting, are you or are you not a Civil Servant ?.

[Katman]

Missed this thread somehow. Was wondering about our rates as we now have a couple of extra rooms on the house.

Is this something that the rates people would know about and have adjusted for accordingly as the completion/signoff of the job would have involved passing on of the relevant info? Or do I need to contact someone directly to ask if there should be an increase?

 

If you went down the Planning and Building Regulation Route when you added your rooms, then yes the Treasury will be aware. I'm not 100% sure but I think the Rates Department are informed when a completion Certificate is issued. Amended Rates are only sent out twice a year, so you may have to wait six months before knowing what the new Rateable value is.

 

You can always phone up the Rates Department.

[Lonan3]

1. Anything is better than having services 'managed' by single local government body.

2. some of the smaller local gov areas combine to manage such things as refuse collection etc. The obvious example is the Garff Initiative, by which Lonan, Laxey and Maughold combine to organise things this way and get the job done cheaply and efficiently.

3. Douglas Corpy is beginning to see the sense of it - offering the facilities of the Noble's Library to residents from other parts of the island for a (IMO very reasonable) one-off fee.

...

Thanks Lonan3 . Would you mind clarifying a bit - why do you say anything is better than a single local government body?

 

As I see it a single body - divided into wards/sheadings/local govt areas - might make it easy to combine refuse collection etc. island wide - and be much more 'joined-up' than otherwise.

 

As I said, maybe I'm missing something, but it seems just plain daft to me to have - for example - duplication in the running of libraries rather than an island-wide service serving the community as a whole. I'd think there's not only a whole lot of extra cost in the system and inefficiency - but also this is possibly less accountable and less well managed than otherwise - i.e. little fiefdom syndrome. Had these been commercial enterprises I bet there' have been a spate of mergers and acquisitions. Admittedly the quaint local village library might give way to a facility which offers more with more modern resources, but is that a bad thing? The refuse collection example is just a step towards this - isn't it?

 

Maybe it didn't take too many councillors and meetings at £30 a pop to agree about library fees for residents from other parts - or cost too much to put the system in place, agree refuse collection etc. but it does seem more bureaucratic than makes sense given the scale.

 

What do you see as the problems with a single local government body? (e.g divided into wards, representing local interests fairly across the board). Do you think there might not be ways of addressing these problems so as to get efficiencies without the downside you see in it?

I accept that there are too many local authorities. At the same time, I believe that there needs to be a check on the growth of large bureaucracies which, by their nature, tend to be become less efficient and accountable over time (Tynwald is a near-perfect example of this).

The single local government body already exists, of course, in the form of the Dept of Local Govt and the Environment (Dolge), but its attempts to reduce the number of local authorities have been over ambitious in the past.

As an example, the proposal to lump Lonan - with its comparatively small and mainly rural population - in with Onchan, was never going to be welcomed (Especially when, as soon as it was proposed, Onchan Commissioners began 'requesting' a list of Lonan's assets!)

Although the idea of 4 town districts, 5 village districts and 15 parish districts is cumbersome, reducing them in a sensible and acceptable way has proved difficult so far. I've already mentioned the Garff initiative - which could ultimately convert 1 village and two rural districts into a single entity as a way forward. Michael, Ballaugh and Jurby could possibly work towards doing something similar, as could Castletown, Malew and Santon.

The problem comes when the smaller rural areas feel in danger of being swallowed up by the larger towns and no longer having such a strong level of local input into what happens.

It is a problem that does need addressing, but it needs to begin by identifying and addressing the concerns of people who live in the areas.

[Mr. Sausages]

Still waiting, are you or are you not a Civil Servant ?.

 

You should get out more.

[manxman8180]

Still waiting, are you or are you not a Civil Servant ?.

 

You should get out more.

He's going to be out and about at the Tynwald Inn car park tomorrow isn't he?

[triskelion]

I thought I was Mark Woodward?

 

Its hard to keep up.

[Cret]

Missed this thread somehow. Was wondering about our rates as we now have a couple of extra rooms on the house.

Is this something that the rates people would know about and have adjusted for accordingly as the completion/signoff of the job would have involved passing on of the relevant info? Or do I need to contact someone directly to ask if there should be an increase?

 

If you went down the Planning and Building Regulation Route when you added your rooms, then yes the Treasury will be aware. I'm not 100% sure but I think the Rates Department are informed when a completion Certificate is issued. Amended Rates are only sent out twice a year, so you may have to wait six months before knowing what the new Rateable value is.

 

You can always phone up the Rates Department.

 

Handy, cheers.

 

Yes, everything was done properly through planning (twice), and all the work was signed off by the honestly not remotely overzealous building inspector.

[Skig]

How much does the Pulrose golf course cost the Douglas rate payers? Are all the Douglas ratepayers subsidising the golfers who use it?

[triskelion]

I accept that there are too many local authorities. At the same time, I believe that there needs to be a check on the growth of large bureaucracies which, by their nature, tend to be become less efficient and accountable over time (Tynwald is a near-perfect example of this).

The single local government body already exists, of course, in the form of the Dept of Local Govt and the Environment (Dolge), but its attempts to reduce the number of local authorities have been over ambitious in the past.

As an example, the proposal to lump Lonan - with its comparatively small and mainly rural population - in with Onchan, was never going to be welcomed (Especially when, as soon as it was proposed, Onchan Commissioners began 'requesting' a list of Lonan's assets!)

Although the idea of 4 town districts, 5 village districts and 15 parish districts is cumbersome, reducing them in a sensible and acceptable way has proved difficult so far. I've already mentioned the Garff initiative - which could ultimately convert 1 village and two rural districts into a single entity as a way forward. Michael, Ballaugh and Jurby could possibly work towards doing something similar, as could Castletown, Malew and Santon.

The problem comes when the smaller rural areas feel in danger of being swallowed up by the larger towns and no longer having such a strong level of local input into what happens.

It is a problem that does need addressing, but it needs to begin by identifying and addressing the concerns of people who live in the areas.

That's as convincing a case for local government as I've ever read. Its really made me rethink my position on it.

 

However, I'm not sure that the IoMG is quite the large bureacracy you make it out to be. There are the equivalent of 8,290.39 full time Government employees, which is about 2 for every 19 residents. This compares favourably with the UK, where I believe it is somewhere in the region of 1 in 5 people. Of IoMG employees, 2 665 work for the DHSS (32%) and 1 677 (20%) by the Dept of Ed. With this, and the other allocations laid out in the budget, I cannot see where this hideously inefficient bureaucracy is hiding.

[salmo]

[well your rates have increased now gas is up by 14% whooppee i thought manx gas had bought cheape for the next 2 years. oh well the kids will have to put their thermals on .