jimbms Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Good, bad or indifferent, you have to love the guy's style. TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF (ARIZONA) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN. These are some of the reasons why: Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of million of dollars on another expensive prison complex. He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He banned smoking and porno magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says: "They're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave." He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination. He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney Channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied: "So these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs." He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back." He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees. "This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane." Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves." On Wednesday he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: "It's between 120F to 130F degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!" Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces. Sheriff Joe was just re-elected Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 the man is a hero, top marks to the bloke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 the man is a hero, top marks to the bloke We should have had him design the new thing up at Jurby. Maybe then it wouldn't be comparable to the island's top hotels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 ...and I suppose when the odd death occurs in there it won't matter really will it? That system's not about paying a debt to society, it's about the revenge of society. People should look more closely at the system e.g. why are so many people banged up at great expense to Joe Public when often they are not dangerous to society and could carry out their sentence doing something useful for the community; or why more effort is not spent preparing people in prison for release and a constructive role in society. The state of our prisons is a fair measure of the state of our society. The UK system is full to capacity, under resourced, with little chance of reforming those that can be reformed. The Manx system, going by the last prison report, is also failing systemically. I'm sure after all this the Sheriff will be pumping out many 'reformed characters' who won't blame society for treating them badly at all. Can you really not see some character going after him after their release after being sent back to the same sh1thole and situation from whence they came? If society treats people like sh1t with no chance of rehabilitation, don't be surprised when those people continue to act like sh1t - and turn up back at prison. I'm sure the innocent ones in there on remand are enjoying it immensely too - and if Jurby was like that, think on, one day that could be you until proven innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces. Is there any actual proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 ...and I suppose when the odd death occurs in there it won't matter really will it? That system's not about paying a debt to society, it's about the revenge of society. People should look more closely at the system e.g. why are so many people banged up at great expense to Joe Public when often they are not dangerous to society and could carry out their sentence doing something useful for the community; or why more effort is not spent preparing people in prison for release and a constructive role in society. The state of our prisons is a fair measure of the state of our society. The UK system is full to capacity, under resourced, with little chance of reforming those that can be reformed. The Manx system, going by the last prison report, is also failing systemically. I'm sure after all this the Sheriff will be pumping out many 'reformed characters' who won't blame society for treating them badly at all. Can you really not see some character going after him after their release after being sent back to the same sh1thole and situation from whence they came? If society treats people like sh1t with no chance of rehabilitation, don't be surprised when those people continue to act like sh1t - and turn up back at prison. I'm sure the innocent ones in there on remand are enjoying it immensely too - and if Jurby was like that, think on, one day that could be you until proven innocent. On the other hand maybe if the thieving, malingering, drunken, violent little shits didn’t commit the crime in the first place they wouldn’t be in therein the first place. To re quote what I put in a previous post about criminals locked up in bad conditions "If they want sympathy tell them to look in the dictionary between Shit and Syphilis". Why should we have to fund the upkeep of those who have already stolen from us or harmed us. As for the comment "If society treats people like shit with no chance of rehabilitation" what about them treating society like shit in the first place, it works both ways. On the subject of those on remand fair enough put them somewhere decent until the case is over then charge them for accommodation if found guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 If you don't like it, don't come back. A lot of inmates are institutionalised in many prison systems and do come back - it's a home away from home, particularly for gang members who earn their 'patches' by doing stints in prison. Many of these measures make sense in that context - putting an end to gym weights, cable channels of choice, smoking, having them wear pink outfits rather than the 'cool' and 'hard' standard prison ones. This would be crossing the line if the meals do not meet the nutritional needs and the prisoners are not provided adequate shelter and are subjected to extremes of temperature. No need for frills, but not to the extent of cruelty or inhumanity in what they are subjected to. (equating with soldiers in Iraq is a bogus argument to me). I could also see that as well as greater deterrent, in some cases a non-brutalising 'monastic bare-cell' regime could could be one part of a more effective rehabilitation programme, with shorter but more effective sentences. What I don't see is the rest of the stuff that should be going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 ...and I suppose when the odd death occurs in there it won't matter really will it? That system's not about paying a debt to society, it's about the revenge of society. People should look more closely at the system e.g. why are so many people banged up at great expense to Joe Public when often they are not dangerous to society and could carry out their sentence doing something useful for the community; or why more effort is not spent preparing people in prison for release and a constructive role in society. The state of our prisons is a fair measure of the state of our society. The UK system is full to capacity, under resourced, with little chance of reforming those that can be reformed. The Manx system, going by the last prison report, is also failing systemically. I'm sure after all this the Sheriff will be pumping out many 'reformed characters' who won't blame society for treating them badly at all. Can you really not see some character going after him after their release after being sent back to the same sh1thole and situation from whence they came? If society treats people like sh1t with no chance of rehabilitation, don't be surprised when those people continue to act like sh1t - and turn up back at prison. I'm sure the innocent ones in there on remand are enjoying it immensely too - and if Jurby was like that, think on, one day that could be you until proven innocent. I take your point but I think this bloke is trying to make it a deterrent, to stop people from committing the crime in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Look up Scott Norberg, Brian Crenshaw and Richard Post. Somehow i think the $8.25 million out of court settlement with Norberg's parents suggests that perhaps he isn't saving as much money as he makes out. The man is a publicity whore (for example requesting that Paris Hilton be transferred to his jail) and should never have been allowed such a position of power. P.S. about 60% of prisoners in Arpaio's jail are awaiting trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 ...and I suppose when the odd death occurs in there it won't matter really will it? That system's not about paying a debt to society, it's about the revenge of society. People should look more closely at the system e.g. why are so many people banged up at great expense to Joe Public when often they are not dangerous to society and could carry out their sentence doing something useful for the community; or why more effort is not spent preparing people in prison for release and a constructive role in society. The state of our prisons is a fair measure of the state of our society. The UK system is full to capacity, under resourced, with little chance of reforming those that can be reformed. The Manx system, going by the last prison report, is also failing systemically. I'm sure after all this the Sheriff will be pumping out many 'reformed characters' who won't blame society for treating them badly at all. Can you really not see some character going after him after their release after being sent back to the same sh1thole and situation from whence they came? If society treats people like sh1t with no chance of rehabilitation, don't be surprised when those people continue to act like sh1t - and turn up back at prison. I'm sure the innocent ones in there on remand are enjoying it immensely too - and if Jurby was like that, think on, one day that could be you until proven innocent. On the other hand maybe if the thieving, malingering, drunken, violent little shits didn’t commit the crime in the first place they wouldn’t be in therein the first place. To re quote what I put in a previous post about criminals locked up in bad conditions "If they want sympathy tell them to look in the dictionary between Shit and Syphilis". Why should we have to fund the upkeep of those who have already stolen from us or harmed us. As for the comment "If society treats people like shit with no chance of rehabilitation" what about them treating society like shit in the first place, it works both ways. On the subject of those on remand fair enough put them somewhere decent until the case is over then charge them for accommodation if found guilty. This sheriff sounds like a dick, I would far rather see him gaoled for a length period than the prisoners he treats like this. I agree with Albert. I don't see how this is about reforming these prisoners but rather seems like some immature man revelling in the power he has over these people. Jim Calagon: I tend to get the impression from your perspectives of criminal behaviour that you believe all these people in prison are the same, they are simply criminals and that is all that matters. If you have a problem with the funding of prisons then why not abolish prisoners, that will save far more money and it is hardly as if we would be seeing the end of an effective deterrent to crime. I think you miss the point entirely that the vast majority of criminals are not just some sort of abhorrent section of society gone wrong but are largely made up of those in the society who have the least to lose, who are on bottom rung economically and socially. They represent society, and if they cause problems these are problems for society as a whole that should be dealt with. But you deal with it by remedying the cause and not seeing the problem as something rather more isolated and place the entire responsibility of the crime on the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 P.S. about 60% of prisoners in Arpaio's jail are awaiting trial. This puts it in a whole new light. These people shouldn't be being punished and reformed. Many of them might be acquitted and some might be perfectly innocent. It doesn't work as deterrent or 'if you don't like it, don't come back'. (otherwise maybe everyone should have a spell of a few months just to get them to realise how bad prison is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 He sounds just like a 'good ol' boy' - straight from the Dukes of Hazzard - a redneck who takes out his frustration on others because he never managed to get it on with his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Many of them might be acquitted and some might be perfectly innocent. There's no 'might be' about it in a civilised society - everyone is innocent until proven guilty. People are getting away with this kind of crap, IMO, as a spin off from GWB's and TB's far-right 'war on terror', which has been used to back numerous injustices, stirred up much trouble across the world, eroded civil liberties and numerous freedoms in their own countries, and left one hell of a mess in Iraq and much of the middle east. The sooner GWB is consigned to history, along with Tony Blair (who?), the sooner we can start to move out of this 'dark age', where greed, religion, intolerance and stupidity have been allowed to run riot as never before in our so called democracies. Jeebus, we fought world war two to get rid of these kind of people and their attitudes - yet in ten years have not only turned to many of those values we fought against, but rounded it all off with the ingredients for what could turn out to be the worst western recession for 60 years. Crime is but one price to be paid for greed and intolerance. That prison is nothing but a concentration camp - and anyone supporting it is nothing but a fascist, non-thinking, misguided thug who has no part in, and no understanding of, a civilised democracy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 He sounds just like a 'good ol' boy' - straight from the Dukes of Hazzard - a redneck who takes out his frustration on others because he never managed to get it on with his sister. I bet he loves his gun............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Many of them might be acquitted and some might be perfectly innocent. There's no 'might be' about it in a civilised society - everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Yes - all the 60% awaiting trial should be presumed innocent as well as those among these who might be 'perfectly innocent' i.e. not only presumed innocent until tried and convicted. Prisoners on remand should not be subject to punishment - only curtailing liberty for the sake of protecting public from the danger they might pose (or in case of 'flight risk'). That prison is nothing but a concentration camp - and anyone supporting it is nothing but a fascist, non-thinking, misguided thug who has no part in, and no understanding of, a civilised democracy IMO. Custodial sentences can/should/may serve a number of purposes, e.g: Deterrence Reforming/rehabilitation of offender Retribution by society against offender who breaks the laws Showing values and importance attached to laws - including seriousness of various offences. Providing justice to victims - i.e. not leaving them feeling the harm they suffer is of no importance. Providing wrongdoer with a punishment that they and others feel 'pays the debt' (without which residual resentment etc.) As I said, I think this particular institution is going too far, but I'd think for some convicted offenders, a more bare-bones system without frills and comforts - but without brutality or inhumanity - might be more effective and justified. It also drives home that the offender has put himself outside civilised society and as a result is not entitled to the rights and liberties that go with that - other than just basic human rights. Low security prisons, with comfy rooms on par with uni accommodation, cable tv, internet, libraries, gyms, and so forth may be very progressive, but they might not be very effective. In some cases shorter sentences in bare-bones prison might achieve more in reintegrating the offender into society etc.. That IMO is better than making someone a long term member of the 'prison population'. If it did work, would you be against that and consider it to be fascist, uncivilised, misguided etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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