Slim Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Can't you see that it is data collection for data collections sake and not a necessary use of the technology. Nope. 1) Because I'm using a commercial companies service and I understand and expect that i'll be logged in various places for a variety of reasons 2) Because I understand the extent and capacity of such monitoring and what it'll be used for 3) Because I'm not doing anthing that I'm really that bothered about that logging, because I'm not doing anything wrong 4) Because I know how to circumvent such monitoring should it become necessary 5) Because I'm not a paranoid freak who goes 'ZO MY GODZ PRIVACY STEALING NAZI OVERLORDZ' whenever this issue is raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 So you are quite happy with the commercial companies having to collect this data on everyone, just in case the government department wants it, what about the rights of the individual? Dodger I presume you use a bank? You do know that they record every transaction you make or if your taking cash out, which cashpoint you used and in which country. Remember that ex US Marine who groomed the UK 14 yr old girl over the Internet and then took her off to Europe? - as I remember it he was located in Germany from using his cash card. Why didn't the US government catch him sending emails? Which of course they all read.... Remember the lorry driver who mowed down a car stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway? Using mobile phone records they proved he was texting at the exact time he crashed into the back of the car as he veered off. It's nothing new commercial companies keep records and collect data on everyone and have been doing so for years. I'm sure they a recording your fetish for dressing up as a viking as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Can't you see that it is data collection for data collections sake and not a necessary use of the technology. Nope. 1) Because I'm using a commercial companies service and I understand and expect that i'll be logged in various places for a variety of reasons 2) Because I understand the extent and capacity of such monitoring and what it'll be used for 3) Because I'm not doing anthing that I'm really that bothered about that logging, because I'm not doing anything wrong 4) Because I know how to circumvent such monitoring should it become necessary 5) Because I'm not a paranoid freak who goes 'ZO MY GODZ PRIVACY STEALING NAZI OVERLORDZ' whenever this issue is raised. 4) Because I know how to circumvent such monitoring should it become necessary Ah so it is because you can/will circumvent the system, don't you think that will make the governments more suspicious of your activities. Nothing to hide nothing to fear? I don't feel that they need the amount of data that they are requesting, keeping it for the length of time that they proposing. How will you circumvent the requirement to provide travel details to be allowed to travel? Pay by cash (costs more) use an alias with false finger prints? Can be done...... Please let us all know so that we can all circumvent these proposals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagster Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 "The Isle of Man's Data Protection Officer is very concerned by new surveillance proposals from the British government. A draft bill calls for a giant Home Office database of phone calls, text messages, emails and internet search histories, which UK officials say would help combat terrorism and crime. Although nothing is definite yet, Iain McDonald says it's likely the Island would be included, to some extent at least. He says the possible retention and open access to such information is worrying (audio file attached): Iain McDonald was speaking to Dan Davies on Talking Heads." http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=20536 ANS/SLIM + AI Droid, this was mentioned earlier on the thread! So it can happen, whether Manx.net at the moment I don't know, but I would think that it will be all emails/mobiles. Internet search histories as well!!!! Oh well nothing to hide nothing to fear........... Perhaps Iain McDonald will be back at Manx Radio today... apparently they were in recipt of a leaked database of 8000 people from Crewe & Nantwich (in relation to the by-election being held today)... and subsequently forwarded the database to another media outlet in the Crewe & Nantwich!!! Full details here:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7413826.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It's nothing new commercial companies keep records and collect data on everyone and have been doing so for years. Exactly my point all along. The data private companies hold is just massive, the data they must collect for KYC, your history, your health, your spending. It's huge, far beyond what the government keep, and yet nobody says a word. The second the government, who have to do these things transparently, start to collect, the paranoids get loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 So you are quite happy with the commercial companies having to collect this data on everyone, just in case the government department wants it, what about the rights of the individual? Dodger I presume you use a bank? You do know that they record every transaction you make or if your taking cash out, which cashpoint you used and in which country. Remember that ex US Marine who groomed the UK 14 yr old girl over the Internet and then took her off to Europe? - as I remember it he was located in Germany from using his cash card. Why didn't the US government catch him sending emails? Which of course they all read.... Remember the lorry driver who mowed down a car stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway? Using mobile phone records they proved he was texting at the exact time he crashed into the back of the car as he veered off. It's nothing new commercial companies keep records and collect data on everyone and have been doing so for years. I'm sure they a recording your fetish for dressing up as a viking as well. LOL, at least it isn't a dress! Maybe they will do me for carrying offensive weapons! I have been hurt more with shields than weapons! The banks and mobile companies collect certain data on an ongoing basis, the issue is government departments wanting access, the issue with data loss is that the more people who have access the more possible areas of loss. Especially if access is over the internet. Based on the details already being available to confirm and catch people why do they need to increase the level of data collection? They are looking to get access to the content of txt's, emails and for E borders they want your credit or debit card number as well, this data is to be transmitted from IOM - UK everytime we travel and they want the information the day before travel! I want criminals/terrorists to be caught, just not at the cost of my loss of privacy and invasion of my human rights. We all become treated as suspects for the rest of our lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagster Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 "The Isle of Man's Data Protection Officer is very concerned by new surveillance proposals from the British government. A draft bill calls for a giant Home Office database of phone calls, text messages, emails and internet search histories, which UK officials say would help combat terrorism and crime. Although nothing is definite yet, Iain McDonald says it's likely the Island would be included, to some extent at least. He says the possible retention and open access to such information is worrying (audio file attached): Iain McDonald was speaking to Dan Davies on Talking Heads." http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=20536 ANS/SLIM + AI Droid, this was mentioned earlier on the thread! So it can happen, whether Manx.net at the moment I don't know, but I would think that it will be all emails/mobiles. Internet search histories as well!!!! Oh well nothing to hide nothing to fear........... Perhaps Iain McDonald will be back at Manx Radio today... apparently they were in recipt of a leaked database of 8000 people from Crewe & Nantwich (in relation to the by-election being held today)... and subsequently forwarded the database to another media outlet in the Crewe & Nantwich!!! Full details here:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7413826.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It's nothing new commercial companies keep records and collect data on everyone and have been doing so for years. Exactly my point all along. The data private companies hold is just massive, the data they must collect for KYC, your history, your health, your spending. It's huge, far beyond what the government keep, and yet nobody says a word. The second the government, who have to do these things transparently, start to collect, the paranoids get loose. What's the point though? - when ID cards, or more importantly the proposed large databases behind them: won't prevent terrorist attacks, won't prevent illegal immigration, won't prevent identity fraud, won't prevent human trafficking - and when all the UK government has proven is that it can regularly lose vast amounts of data. What's so paranoid about people wanting to maintain the relationship of the government to the people by having the government responsible to the people and not vice versa? Just because you can do something technologically, doesn't mean it's justfied. Businesses have strict rules about keeping very specific data and people have a choice of which business to go to and who to trust with some of their data - there is only one government, and in the UK that is one elected by only 32% of the actual available vote. That said, I think there should be far more control on many companies, especially the likes of Tesco and credit rating companies like Equifax etc. who often get 2+2 to equal 27. After todays byelection it could all be academic anyhoo - 2:30am tomorrow A.M. could well see another nail in tax-the-arse-off-you Gordon Broon's coffin. The chickens have all now started to come home to roost. If NuShite have any sense, which I now firmly doubt, they should drop these proposals like a hot brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 What's the point though? - when ID cards, or more importantly the proposed large databases behind them: won't prevent terrorist attacks, won't prevent illegal immigration, won't prevent identity fraud, won't prevent human trafficking - and when all the UK government has proven is that it can regularly lose vast amounts of data. Why won't they prevent these things? I believe they will. The data loss is unfortunate, sure, but shouldn't and doesn't mean the government will stop collecting, just means they should improve their systems, which is what they're doing. If NuShite have any sense, which I now firmly doubt, they should drop these proposals like a hot brick. Given the UK is one of the last countries in the western world to adopt such a thing, I'd hardly put it at the door of the current government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 What's the point though? - when ID cards, or more importantly the proposed large databases behind them: won't prevent terrorist attacks, won't prevent illegal immigration, won't prevent identity fraud, won't prevent human trafficking - and when all the UK government has proven is that it can regularly lose vast amounts of data. Why won't they prevent these things? I believe they will. Some examples: Terrorism: Charles Clarke, has admitted that ID cards would not have prevented the 7 July 2005 bombings in London, saying: 'I doubt if it would have made a difference'. In Spain, ID cards are compulsory, but they did not stop the Madrid bombings in March 2004. Immigration/Terrorism: Foreign visitors will not have to have an ID card, unless they plan to stay in the UK for more than three months. ID Theft: Microsoft's National Technology Officer, Jerry Fishenden, has said that introducing ID cards could make identity fraud worse, warning that it could 'trigger massive identity fraud on a scale on a scale beyond anything we have seen before'. Trafficking: ID cards are no substitute for a border police force and proper checks on people entering and leaving the country. In 1998, the Government abolished border controls, but its replacement, a computer-based e-borders scheme will not be fully installed until 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 You could say all the same things and more about the existing passport system, should we scrap that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Albert Tatlock @ May 22 2008, 11:20 AM) What's the point though? - when ID cards, or more importantly the proposed large databases behind them: won't prevent terrorist attacks, won't prevent illegal immigration, won't prevent identity fraud, won't prevent human trafficking - and when all the UK government has proven is that it can regularly lose vast amounts of data. ai_Droid: Why won't they prevent these things? I believe they will. Please explain how large databases will prevent terrorist attacks, illegal immigration, identity fraud and human trafficking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Please explain how large databases will prevent terrorist attacks, illegal immigration, identity fraud and human trafficking. Done to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Done to death. You're running out of puff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 You're running out of puff Just sick of going over the same shit with you. It's clear you know nowt about this subject, and aren't prepared to learn, so what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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