Slim Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 You may not see the problem with massive centralised government rcords of our personal data. However, the UK Information Commissioner certainly shares the concerns of some of the posters on Manx Forums. That's his bloody job! "The Information Commissioner's Office is the UK's independent authority set up to promote access to official information and to protect personal information" What do you expect him to say? Fill your boots lads? You've misquoted him too if you're suggesting those comments are related to e-borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 But e-Borders is a centralised government ten year record of your personal travel movements. Why do they need this data on you Slim? Why do they need this data on me? The ICO is a highly respected public figure. Government, here in the Isle of Man and in the UK must take note of his concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 But e-Borders is a centralised government ten year record of your personal travel movements. Why do they need this data on you Slim? Why do they need this data on me? Jebus, is there an echo? Why do you need a passport at all Cronky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 In today's Daily Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...5/12/do1202.xml "It did so by deciding to let the "open market" capture citizens' biometrics, effectively outsourcing the cost of enrolling people on to the ID database. You could end up getting your fingerprints taken at a supermarket, rather than at a passport office as originally proposed." Couldn't this be the same with BAA and the ports/E borders programme? If they collect the data and they can use it to target a marketing campaign, find out what age groups are going where, for how long, how much they spend and whether their credit rating s good or not. With passports your data is collected and stored for a specific use, if the commercial side get all your details, what do you think they will want in exchange? Mail shots to your mobile, home, work, emails. There is big money in this data and one of the reasons we should be wary of giving it up so freely! If/when it goes wrong it will be up to the individual concerned to prove that they did not request the loan, didn't commit the crime as he would not know from where the data was taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 But e-Borders is a centralised government ten year record of your personal travel movements. Why do they need this data on you Slim? Why do they need this data on me? Jebus, is there an echo? Why do you need a passport at all Cronky? A passport gives at present enough information to be able to prove who a person is, why is there a need for more? What is the benefit or purpose of tracking your movements? Why does the UK Government need to know so much about us at all times? We are going away from necessary data to excessive data without a good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Jebus, is there an echo? Why do you need a passport at all Cronky? A very good point! I probably don't as I take my holidays in Port Erin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 If anyone believes that schemes like e-Borders will make our lives easier have a read of this letter to The Times Last week I arrived back at Heathrow from Toronto en route to Edinburgh. Thanks to the T5 problems, flights from Toronto arrive at T4 and flights for Edinburgh leave from T5. I had one hour and 25 minutes. First BAA could not connect its air bridge to the plane — loss of 25 minutes. Then there was a queue for the transfer bus — ten minutes. Then passport control at T5; then biometrics. They take your photo and link it to your boarding card in their computers just so you can cross T5. (Don’t ask why this is better than a passport.) I got to the gate, breathless and heart racing, 20 minutes before departure; the flight had not closed and others were stuck behind me in the system. But my “biometrics were faulty”, ie, the BAA system of taking a photo and linking it to my boarding card had not worked properly. The BA employees at the gate said they could not let me on to my flight. I protested. I am a British citizen, I have a valid passport, it has my photograph, I have a valid boarding card, I am at the gate for a domestic flight within Britain. But to no avail. They said: “BAA Security are only a few paces away, they should be here in 2 or 3 minutes.” “What would they do?” “Just check your passport.” “You could do that.” “We used to but now we aren’t allowed to.” Security did not come — for 35 minutes; I was denied boarding; the plane and my colleague left without me. I spent much of my Sunday at Heathrow. What have we come to if a British citizen with a valid passport and a valid boarding card presents himself, on time, at the gate for a British domestic flight and can be thrown off because BAA’s biometrics don’t work? Are we going to have to put up with this type of rubbish at the Sea Terminal and airport here in the Isle of Man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Actually, that example is why you need a central joined up system like eborders rather than ad-hoc solutions in each airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Actually, that example is why you need a central joined up system like eborders rather than ad-hoc solutions in each airport. Actually, it demonstrates the passport system works fine as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Actually, it demonstrates the passport system works fine as it is. Not at all, here the manual passport system can't be used in an automated way, so is causing chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Not at all, here the manual passport system can't be used in an automated way, so is causing chaos. Are you referring to chaos at the Sea Terminal or Ronaldsway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Are you referring to chaos at the Sea Terminal or Ronaldsway? Do you have short term memory loss? I'm referring to the chaos you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Are you referring to chaos at the Sea Terminal or Ronaldsway? Do you have short term memory loss? I'm referring to the chaos you quoted. What about RFID chips in your passport? The issue at Terminal 5 was that the technology didn't do the job it was supposed to and the staff were unwilling to do a manual check, as they were not security. Sometimes low tech just works better! Why couldn't the person's passport be used, it was used for international travel, but suddenly it isn't acceptable for domestic travel. What would happen if your biometrics didn't match at Ronaldsway/Douglas, from when you check in to the gate? The potential for the same issue to arise is there, the only difference is scale of the operation, which because it is a small operation then there is little need to impliment the E borders or excessive biometric capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 What about RFID chips in your passport? What about it? The issue at Terminal 5 was that the technology didn't do the job it was supposed to and the staff were unwilling to do a manual check, as they were not security. Yes, the chaos caused by a shitty isolated system that they've installed to fix a particular problem in that terminal because there's not a universal system in place for identifying people from all countries. Sometimes low tech just works better! Why couldn't the person's passport be used, it was used for international travel, but suddenly it isn't acceptable for domestic travel. What would happen if your biometrics didn't match at Ronaldsway/Douglas, from when you check in to the gate? The potential for the same issue to arise is there, the only difference is scale of the operation, which because it is a small operation then there is little need to impliment the E borders or excessive biometric capture. Loads of reasons, none of which you'll except, and I'm beyond explaining the basics of automation to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Yes, the chaos caused by a shitty isolated system that they've installed to fix a particular problem in that terminal because there's not a universal system in place for identifying people from all countries. But we don't have a problem here in the Isle of Man. Every time I have travelled off island (boat or aeroplane) it's been a breeze. How will E-Borders improve my travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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