Irish Sea Manx Stopover

[manshimajin]

A few of the threads have been discussing ways of boosting tourism to the IOM and also the costs of travel with the IOMSPC. I have now costed out an idea I posted elsewhere. Your thoughts would be much appreciate as to whether it is a practical idea.

 

The concept is to introduce a ferry ticket that would allow motoring tourists going UK-Ireland (or vice versa) to take a 'stopover' on the IOM at a reasonable cost. A sort of Irish Sea rover ticket that would encourage families to travel between UK and Ireland via the IOM for a stopover.

 

The reasons this could make sense include:

 

- the IOMSPC has ferry connections to both England and Ireland so it would utilise a service that's already there,

 

- the IOM is very well suited for a 3-4 day stopover and the IOM Tourist Board should be able to develop some attractive packages to encourage this (accommodation plus sightseeing plus train and tramway)

 

- there is a high volume of summer motor touring traffic crossing the Irish Sea - not just between UK and Ireland but also from other European countries with high volumes of tourists to Ireland from the Netherlands, Germany, Scandinavia, France and Spain.

 

- there are some 'shared themes' with Ireland in particular - scenic, Celtic,, Norse, natural history etc

- accessing this market could give a big boost to tourism

 

The way the IOMSPC prices its routes blows this out of the water at present. The reason is that whilst they offer return priced sailings Ireland-Ireland or England-England if you make a trip through the IoM they charge two singles - and with IOMSPC the cost of the single ticket is nearly the same as the return.

 

This is how it would work for a summer time UK-IOM-Ireland round journey at present (based on car+2) - Liverpool -IOM £181 single + IOM Belfast £171 single + Rosslare to Pembroke £140 single = Total Cost £492

 

-alternatively booking a return trip Pembroke -Rosslare and missing out the IoM = Total Cost £268

 

To do a stopover in the IoM based on current fares would cost an additional £224 Not quite double.

 

If the IOMSPC could be persuaded that the 2 trips England-IOM-Ireland could be treated in the same way as the 2 trips Liverpool-IOM-Heysham trip are, the fare for that would be £218. If you then add on to this a single fare Rosslare to Pembroke the round trip including an IOM stopover costs £90 more than the straight Pembroke-Rosslare return.

 

This is starting to look a bit more competitive - and if the same skills were deployed by the IOMSPC that they have used with Norfolk Line on the cross-Channel route for their Landbridge fares it might be possible to come up with a fare that is very close to the Pembroke-Rosslare return - indeed as Norfolk Line sail from both Belfast and Dublin to Birkenhead they might make a good partner in the exercise.

 

We pride ourselves in being able to see 6 countries from the summit of Snaefell - maybe we can actually build on that to let people travelling between them call in on us and see for themselves?

[Snaipyr]

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

 

Thee used to be the 'Irish Sea Rover' ticket, but I don't think that's been an option for a couple of years.

[VikingRaider]

An even better idea would be if the two Stena boats which pass the island twice a day each en route between Fleetwood and Larne were able to stop and pick up. That would make the SPCo sit up and think.

[triskelion]

An even better idea would be if the two Stena boats which pass the island twice a day each en route between Fleetwood and Larne were able to stop and pick up. That would make the SPCo sit up and think.

They're free to build their own linkspan and do so.

[thesultanofsheight]

1. You can go Norfolk Line, Irish Ferries or P & O Liverpool to Dublin (Dublin / Liverpool) direct for virtually bugger all.

 

2. If you want to go to Dublin why waste 4 days in the IOM?

 

3. Who wants to do two long Irish sea crossings when they can get away with only one?

 

4. Why should our tourist board waste our money advertising the IOM as a stopover to somewhere else that gets the big bucks?

 

5. Why would the Irish Tourist Board with its bigger budget than the DTL allow us to hijack its media spend & profile

 

6. Why would the Steampacket want to turn a premium route (to the IOM) into a low cost one?

[Lost Login]

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

 

Thee used to be the 'Irish Sea Rover' ticket, but I don't think that's been an option for a couple of years.

 

I am not sure that it would work in practice as it will rely on there being a considerable amount of traffic between the UK & the IoM and between Ireland and the IoM.

 

The traffic is already there between the UK & the IoM but I am not sure about between Ireland & the IoM.

 

To expect that we can cash in on existing Uk to Ireland routes by getting them to stop in the IoM is probably a non starter. Firstly if you were booking between Ireland & the UK would you choose to go on the ferry that goes via the IoM and adds a couple of hours to the crossing time. That applies to both passenger and cargo traffic, especially the latter where "time is money"

 

Secondly if you look at the fast craft ferries that cross from Holyhead they are much bigger craft than the IoM can currently accomodate. We would need a huge new infrrastructure to accomodate those sort of boats. The traffic would have to be available to fill those sort of boats as that is what makes them reasonably priced, they are rely on high frequency of service and usage.

 

Unfortunately we are a small island in the middle of the Irish Sea and while any new idea is worth looking at ultimately the cost and frequency of of travel is a disadvantage that offsets some of the many advantages.

[localyokel]

Secondly if you look at the fast craft ferries that cross from Holyhead they are much bigger craft than the IoM can currently accomodate. We would need a huge new infrrastructure to accomodate those sort of boats. The traffic would have to be available to fill those sort of boats as that is what makes them reasonably priced, they are rely on high frequency of service and usage.

 

Its not just the size of the craft you'd need, its better access to the linkspans, better traffic management getting the cars off, and better hotels to put them up in.

 

Plus the Irish sea is a terrible crossing I'd rather do it in one crossing on the big cats on the Irish routes than two sailings in our own vomit comets.

[Albert Tatlock]

An even better idea would be if the two Stena boats which pass the island twice a day each en route between Fleetwood and Larne were able to stop and pick up. That would make the SPCo sit up and think.

Have you seen the TV advert for Stenna? The Isle of Man isn't on their map!!!

 

Edited: to add

(look at the map at the end)

[manshimajin]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

 

The basis of the idea is to use the existing infrastructure a bit more - not to create anything new. If it was possible to attract some additional tourists who would otherwise give the island a wide berth they would be 'icing on the cake' and put more money into existing sailings and the accommodation and tourist infrastructure that we have now (and OK it needs improving).

 

Maybe answering the comments from 'thesultanofsheight' will expand on this a bit?

 

1. You can go Norfolk Line, Irish Ferries or P & O Liverpool to Dublin (Dublin / Liverpool) direct for virtually bugger all.

 

In summertime - the tourist season - 'bugger all' is £280 return on Irish Ferries car+2. What I was thinking of, using current fare structures and a little lateral thinking on IOMSPC's interpretation of 'return' fares, would add about £90 to the trip and throw in the Isle of Man.

 

2. If you want to go to Dublin why waste 4 days in the IOM?

 

I guess that depends on whether you feel the island has anything to offer for tourists - I thought it did

 

3. Who wants to do two long Irish sea crossings when they can get away with only one?

If there was a round trip package it would be 3 trips instead of 2 to go UK-IOM-Ire-UK - and hopefully in the summer not midwinter - those who don't like sailing will go direct

 

4. Why should our tourist board waste our money advertising the IOM as a stopover to somewhere else that gets the big bucks?

 

Is it better to get people to come here for 3-4 days and to get some of that money and the jobs or to watch it sail right past? Some families might add the IoM to their holiday itinerary if they could get here for not much more than going directly to Ireland or the UK and there was a good 'package' of accommodation and activities marketed by the Tourist Board to attract them? Agree that there is a downside risk of people saying better to stay 4 days and go on to UK or to Ireland rather than staying 2 weeks

 

5. Why would the Irish Tourist Board with its bigger budget than the DTL allow us to hijack its media spend & profile

 

Would the IoM be hijacking TI's media spend? Tourism Ireland have had its media spend and profits hijacked (if that is the right term) by non-British Isles destinations in a big way - this would be trivial in the terms they deal in.

 

6. Why would the Steampacket want to turn a premium route (to the IOM) into a low cost one?

 

My proposal is not to turn it into a low cost route but to charge the same price they get on a Liverpool (or Heysham) - Douglas - Heysham return ticket (£218 in summer for car +2) for a Liverpool - Douglas - Belfast (or Dublin) ticket (currently £352 if anyone was mad enough to buy). I doubt that they are selling many 'premium' single tickets L\pool-Douglas and then Douglas - Belfast at £352. You can't make a profit on a premium price if you don't sell any tickets. Given that the IOMSPC is sailing its boats anyway from Douglas to Ireland and from Douglas to England if there were additional passengers it would be additional income for them that otherwise they would never see - and it is the last 10% that gives the profit

[emma]

An even better idea would be if the two Stena boats which pass the island twice a day each en route between Fleetwood and Larne were able to stop and pick up. That would make the SPCo sit up and think.

Have you seen the TV advert for Stenna? The Isle of Man isn't on their map!!!

 

Edited: to add

(look at the map at the end)

 

Yes, I noticed it too... I sent them a cheeky little sarcastic email about it checking that the captains of the ferries were aware of the Isle of Man and able to navigate around it as clearly the advertising department weren't. - Never got a response to it!

[thesultanofsheight]

Maybe answering the comments from 'thesultanofsheight' will expand on this a bit?

 

1. You can go Norfolk Line, Irish Ferries or P & O Liverpool to Dublin (Dublin / Liverpool) direct for virtually bugger all.

 

In summertime - the tourist season - 'bugger all' is £280 return on Irish Ferries car+2. What I was thinking of, using current fare structures and a little lateral thinking on IOMSPC's interpretation of 'return' fares, would add about £90 to the trip and throw in the Isle of Man.

 

Oh. You mean fairytale prices that bear no resemblance to the reality of Steampacket fares. Yes that will work. Shall we as taxpayers fund it as well?

 

2. If you want to go to Dublin why waste 4 days in the IOM?

 

I guess that depends on whether you feel the island has anything to offer for tourists - I thought it did

 

I think we know the answer to that one don't we. Why waste 4 days in the IOM when you can be wandering around historic Dublin spending Euro's and touring the Gunness brewery and all the shopping sites when you can be experiencing absolutely bugger all here. Maybe you could have "Walk through Strand Street and be monumentally underwhelmed" tours.

 

3. Who wants to do two long Irish sea crossings when they can get away with only one?

 

If there was a round trip package it would be 3 trips instead of 2 to go UK-IOM-Ire-UK - and hopefully in the summer not midwinter - those who don't like sailing will go direct

 

Its still two journeys out. How do you sell two Irish sea crossings to anyone? Nobody really wants to do one. Its the worst crossing in the world

 

4. Why should our tourist board waste our money advertising the IOM as a stopover to somewhere else that gets the big bucks?

 

Is it better to get people to come here for 3-4 days and to get some of that money and the jobs or to watch it sail right past? Some families might add the IoM to their holiday itinerary if they could get here for not much more than going directly to Ireland or the UK and there was a good 'package' of accommodation and activities marketed by the Tourist Board to attract them? Agree that there is a downside risk of people saying better to stay 4 days and go on to UK or to Ireland rather than staying 2 weeks

 

Its sort of saying "Look how shit the Isle of Man is" before sending them to Ireland. That's why. We want people to come back not compare it to how great Dublin is and how there is piss all to do when you get here. As a proposition "Stop off" in the Isle of Man is just trying to get people under false pretences, they don't really want to come here and then we send them to somewhere with better tourist facilities.

 

Also much of the traffic to ireland is short break. How do you factor 4 days in the IOM into a short break in Ireland?

 

5. Why would the Irish Tourist Board with its bigger budget than the DTL allow us to hijack its media spend & profile

 

Would the IoM be hijacking TI's media spend? Tourism Ireland have had its media spend and profits hijacked (if that is the right term) by non-British Isles destinations in a big way - this would be trivial in the terms they deal in.

 

Its not. Irish taxpayers are paying for all the "Visit Ireland" ads in the media. They are not going to endorse a "Visit Ireland via the Isle of Man" approach. Anyone that thinks they might is a complete idiot. Everyone is out for themselves. If there was any value in the come via the IOM message they'd have done it years ago because there was money in it.

 

6. Why would the Steampacket want to turn a premium route (to the IOM) into a low cost one?

 

My proposal is not to turn it into a low cost route but to charge the same price they get on a Liverpool (or Heysham) - Douglas - Heysham return ticket (£218 in summer for car +2) for a Liverpool - Douglas - Belfast (or Dublin) ticket (currently £352 if anyone was mad enough to buy). I doubt that they are selling many 'premium' single tickets L\pool-Douglas and then Douglas - Belfast at £352. You can't make a profit on a premium price if you don't sell any tickets. Given that the IOMSPC is sailing its boats anyway from Douglas to Ireland and from Douglas to England if there were additional passengers it would be additional income for them that otherwise they would never see - and it is the last 10% that gives the profit

 

Yes but the Steampacket don't run the Liverpool to Dublin / Belfast routes. They are not Norfolk Ferries. They charge higher prices for bringing people a shorter distance to the IOM only because they can (ie, its a premium route). They do not have the capacity in terms of craft that the bigger lines have so they have to make it on each passenger. Even an idiot can see that. Unless you have huge Seacats bringing massive numbers of people in here the prices cannot possibly go down because there is no volume. That is why its cheaper to go to Ireland.

 

Basically its a shit idea from start to finish.

[manshimajin]

Maybe answering the comments from 'thesultanofsheight' will expand on this a bit?

 

1. You can go Norfolk Line, Irish Ferries or P & O Liverpool to Dublin (Dublin / Liverpool) direct for virtually bugger all.

 

In summertime - the tourist season - 'bugger all' is £280 return on Irish Ferries car+2. What I was thinking of, using current fare structures and a little lateral thinking on IOMSPC's interpretation of 'return' fares, would add about £90 to the trip and throw in the Isle of Man.

 

Oh. You mean fairytale prices that bear no resemblance to the reality of Steampacket fares. Yes that will work. Shall we as taxpayers fund it as well?

 

2. If you want to go to Dublin why waste 4 days in the IOM?

 

I guess that depends on whether you feel the island has anything to offer for tourists - I thought it did

 

I think we know the answer to that one don't we. Why waste 4 days in the IOM when you can be wandering around historic Dublin spending Euro's and touring the Gunness brewery and all the shopping sites when you can be experiencing absolutely bugger all here. Maybe you could have "Walk through Strand Street and be monumentally underwhelmed" tours.

 

3. Who wants to do two long Irish sea crossings when they can get away with only one?

 

If there was a round trip package it would be 3 trips instead of 2 to go UK-IOM-Ire-UK - and hopefully in the summer not midwinter - those who don't like sailing will go direct

 

Its still two journeys out. How do you sell two Irish sea crossings to anyone? Nobody really wants to do one. Its the worst crossing in the world

 

4. Why should our tourist board waste our money advertising the IOM as a stopover to somewhere else that gets the big bucks?

 

Is it better to get people to come here for 3-4 days and to get some of that money and the jobs or to watch it sail right past? Some families might add the IoM to their holiday itinerary if they could get here for not much more than going directly to Ireland or the UK and there was a good 'package' of accommodation and activities marketed by the Tourist Board to attract them? Agree that there is a downside risk of people saying better to stay 4 days and go on to UK or to Ireland rather than staying 2 weeks

 

Its sort of saying "Look how shit the Isle of Man is" before sending them to Ireland. That's why. We want people to come back not compare it to how great Dublin is and how there is piss all to do when you get here. As a proposition "Stop off" in the Isle of Man is just trying to get people under false pretences, they don't really want to come here and then we send them to somewhere with better tourist facilities.

 

Also much of the traffic to ireland is short break. How do you factor 4 days in the IOM into a short break in Ireland?

 

5. Why would the Irish Tourist Board with its bigger budget than the DTL allow us to hijack its media spend & profile

 

Would the IoM be hijacking TI's media spend? Tourism Ireland have had its media spend and profits hijacked (if that is the right term) by non-British Isles destinations in a big way - this would be trivial in the terms they deal in.

 

Its not. Irish taxpayers are paying for all the "Visit Ireland" ads in the media. They are not going to endorse a "Visit Ireland via the Isle of Man" approach. Anyone that thinks they might is a complete idiot. Everyone is out for themselves. If there was any value in the come via the IOM message they'd have done it years ago because there was money in it.

 

6. Why would the Steampacket want to turn a premium route (to the IOM) into a low cost one?

 

My proposal is not to turn it into a low cost route but to charge the same price they get on a Liverpool (or Heysham) - Douglas - Heysham return ticket (£218 in summer for car +2) for a Liverpool - Douglas - Belfast (or Dublin) ticket (currently £352 if anyone was mad enough to buy). I doubt that they are selling many 'premium' single tickets L\pool-Douglas and then Douglas - Belfast at £352. You can't make a profit on a premium price if you don't sell any tickets. Given that the IOMSPC is sailing its boats anyway from Douglas to Ireland and from Douglas to England if there were additional passengers it would be additional income for them that otherwise they would never see - and it is the last 10% that gives the profit

 

Yes but the Steampacket don't run the Liverpool to Dublin / Belfast routes. They are not Norfolk Ferries. They charge higher prices for bringing people a shorter distance to the IOM only because they can (ie, its a premium route). They do not have the capacity in terms of craft that the bigger lines have so they have to make it on each passenger. Even an idiot can see that. Unless you have huge Seacats bringing massive numbers of people in here the prices cannot possibly go down because there is no volume. That is why its cheaper to go to Ireland.

 

Basically its a shit idea from start to finish.

 

You are one of nature's optimists...you obviously like living on the IoM (from your descriptions of its charms)...rather than being stuck in one of those never ending traffic jams in Dublin, dying of thirst, whilst dreaming of an insipid pint of the black stuff. Even blind Freddie and his dog can work out that two trips at £218 on the IOMSPC is not the same as £352 for two trips on the IOMSPC - unless they have imbibed too much...

[Snaipyr]

The Steam Packet is advertising on Irish telly at the moment - prime time too, just before the 6 pm news. The Scottish Tourist board also advertise on Irish TV, and the Irish Tourist board advertise on Scottish TV. The scenery all looks pretty similar (except larger scale than the IOM). Perhaps our selling point is that you COULD see all of it on a short break!

[Snaipyr]

Oh, and they also feature traditional music and dance going on in the background - we've got that too - and the Gaelic language.

[The Old Git]

Why waste 4 days in the IOM when you can be wandering around historic Dublin spending Euro's and touring the Gunness brewery and all the shopping sites when you can be experiencing absolutely bugger all here.

 

The Euro is quite expensive these days, I found the Guinness brewery tour fairly boring and there's more to life than shopping.

 

I quite like crossing the Irish Sea and wish the IOMSPC would bring back their rover ticket as I'd like to do an IOM > Dublin > Belfast > Stranraer > Liverpool > IOM trip