[BBC News] Staff dispute on jail travel pay

[_pele_]

apparently this dispute has been going on for over two years? TWO YEARS!!! For goodness sake, is there no-one in charge of this????

How on earth has this gone on for so long and only brought up now??? Typical bloody Government Can't they get anything right? They probably need consultants to work this one out as well

 

I read this thread and initially thought, why should they get anything, then read bits and pieces, especially from (most likely) the prison officer, who painted a different picture and from two other prison staff who also agree (personal messages) that there's more going on inside than they can speak about. It's just a damn shame that they can't speak openly about it!!!

 

Anyway, to cut a long story short, it's a forced move, prison staff have to miss their families for another 7 and whatever hours a week (sounds good to me) pay additional fuel costs (huge prices at moment), have been informed that they are on call 24 hours a day, have to be near a phone (sounds a bit shitty now) some haven't got a vehicle and now are forced to buy a car to get to work (hope they have tax and insurance or they'll be locking themselves up)

 

Not my cup of tea, but I suppose someone has to do it. IMO, if they're entitled to it, then pay up Government, instead of being hypocritical all the time,Furthermore, Prison staff should be full of enthusiasm and be ready to provide positive help and assistance to prisoners, than be concerned with petty disputes which will probably have some type of affect on staff or the prisoners.

Sort it out quickly Home Office before this becomes another shamble and we're left with more egg on our faces to other parts of the world!!!

[WTF]

and if the general concencus had there way more public sector workers would be moved out of Douglas. If anyone here wouldn't expect extra pay to cover the cost of being made to work further from home they are mad. Who would be happy to see their employer land them with an extra £1000 or more a year fuel bill?

there are lots of folks that don't live in douglas who work there ( the traffic jams in the morning show this ) do they all get money for travel?? unlikely!! why would anyone think they should get subsidised travel to go to work?? it is basically paying people more for doing the same job. if we all had our travel expenses paid for or subsidised it would be fair, but we don't. i suppose if you look at it the other way though, those who walk to work are effectively getting paid more as they don't have travel expenses.

 

I think you've missed the point. No-one, including the prison workers, expects to get travel money when they initially take a job. You accept a job offer knowing how far you have to travel and whether the salary is worth it. If you're then forced to travel to a relocated office and incur extra costs then the situation has changed.

 

It isn't paying people more to do the same job - it's covering them for the increase in costs they incur by agreeing to stay on in that job after a relocation.

 

 

the cost of fuel has gone uo so much that some people are now worse off to over a tenner a week. should the government pay them it back cos of the forced extra costs in travel?? yeah, thought so. don't forget that they are also trying to re-negotiate the rota and nightshift terms and conditions and also in the link on the first post they are whining about loss of their personal time spent on travel!! ever since the roads have become gridlocked round douglas in a morning many people have had 15 minutes added to travel time even though the route is the same! are they getting compensated for that?? thought so too. the prison officers have been negotiating for ages to improve their lot, now there is a move it is the big chance with the government over a barrel in their eyes.

[molly]

let them all stay at the old prison and recruit new staff from uk to run the new one.

 

Not really an option I know, the prison officers know that as well so as someone else said, they've got the government over a barrel.

 

The screws that I know are hardly ever at work anyway, 3 weeks off or more after a week of nights! that cant be rite can it?

[jimbms]

When you look at this seriously as someone said these officers have been forced to move work locations and no way can a prison officer be classed as a mobile worker. All they are getting is the increased cost of travelling to the prison over what they used to pay hence someone living in Douglas gets the increased milage a Ramsey officer gets naff all. It is a job very few would take and I for one do not begrudge the pay they get for looking after the scum they get every day. this is very similar to a situation I saw in Rochdale when I was across where the hospital moved from out of town to a town centre location, the nurses got no compensation for extra travel and to make matters worse they got charged for parking whereas admin got free parking, the nurses voted with their feet and things soon changed. So if all the prison officers did the same how many here would step into their shoes?

[Miss Take]

As if they are going to leave their cushy little numbers for the sake of a few pence per mile. Let em go I say, see how long they last in the real world... 'Sir, he has more pens than me', 'his chair looks more comfy', 'you expect me to do that now? but i'm on my break'.

 

I'd swap jobs... security (no pun intended) & paid to travel to work!

 

My Dad's a prison officer. You are talking out of your arse. Fuck off.

[hannahsmummy1]

My husband works for a large company in the UK, that we relocated for, no problem there as he got the job off his own steam so made the decision to relocate. (much further down south where house prices are ridiculous as well as the cost of petrol and other things!) So all is going well, he works about 15-20 miles away, home in time to put our daughter to bed etc, doesnt get mileage allowance or money towards a car or anything because thats our choice to live the distance we live from his place of work.

 

However fast forward a few months down the line & the company decides that instead of having an office in Reading, they are now going to relocate the office to Bristol, all the employees that want to carry on working for the company are offered some kind of compensation, inour instance it was that my husband can now work from home for 3 days out of 5, and in addition to that we got a lump sum for a new car and also he gets petrol allowance. He is now locked into a 2 year deal though so he cant leave the company until that time is up & we wouldnt have to pay the money back.

 

The point im trying to make is that the older prison officers (not age wise i mean people that have worked there a long time) should be compensated for travel, either in the form of petrol allowance, or some way to get them to work (ie a bus specially laid on for the staff to get to Jurby) so that there is no extra cost for them to do their jobs. The newer prison officers, ones that were emplyed after the prison was being built at Jurby and therefore knowing that in a few months they would have to travel to Jurby would not be compensated because as someone has already pointed out this was their choice to apply for a job in that particular area.

[Tugger]

It is a job very few would take

 

They are inundated with applications whenever they advertise. An ex-military mate of mine couldn't get anywhere near those jobs.

 

Civil servants are paid out of money generated by the private sector. Their jobs are more secure than the jobs in the private sector, held by the taxpayers who pay their wages. Their jobs typically carry greater pensions benefits than private sector equivalents. And yet there is no advantage, however slight, that they will not seek to exploit. The number of people employed by the government directly or indirectly is astronomical as a percentage of the population, and if these people aren't prepared to do their cushy jobs on their existing terms I absolutely guarantee that we could find replacements who would. It's about time civil servants felt some of the same pressures that private sector employees feel.

[TerryMcCann]

and if these people aren't prepared to do their cushy jobs on their existing terms I absolutely guarantee that we could find replacements who would. It's about time civil servants felt some of the same pressures that private sector employees feel.

 

Good idea. Lets sack all of the prison officers. I'm sure the cost of recruitment plus the specialist training that the new officers will need will be a pittance compared to the mileage allowance the existing officers want.

[Miss Take]

It is a job very few would take

 

They are inundated with applications whenever they advertise. An ex-military mate of mine couldn't get anywhere near those jobs.

 

Civil servants are paid out of money generated by the private sector. Their jobs are more secure than the jobs in the private sector, held by the taxpayers who pay their wages. Their jobs typically carry greater pensions benefits than private sector equivalents. And yet there is no advantage, however slight, that they will not seek to exploit. The number of people employed by the government directly or indirectly is astronomical as a percentage of the population, and if these people aren't prepared to do their cushy jobs on their existing terms I absolutely guarantee that we could find replacements who would. It's about time civil servants felt some of the same pressures that private sector employees feel.

 

How is it an 'advantage' to want to cover the extra costs you will incur? This is standard practice in the private sector too, so the point you are trying to make is incorrect.

[ans]

If they are already being paid to travel to work, I assume those that will be incurring less costs have agreed to take a cut?

[Albert Tatlock]

The average commuter in the UK travels 9 miles to work and doesn't get paid for it. How many years has the prison taken to be planned for and built? - I mean it's no great surprise that it's suddenly there is it, so the staff have no excuse for not planning for this relocation.

 

I think if these costs are paid this would set a dangerous precedent. Some of us would like to see the government relocate many hundreds of civil servants out of Douglas to both ease congestion, and balance/encourage other businesses in other areas of the island e.g. Ramsey, Peel etc. Adding unnecessary and unfair costs to the taxpayer, especially on a small island, where the journey times/distances are nothing compared to many places elsewhere is a very bad idea IMO.

[TerryMcCann]

What is the dangerous precedent being set?

 

The prison officers that will have to travel an additional distance to Jurby are effectively getting a pay cut as a result of this forced relocation. That would be seen as unacceptable in either the public or private sector.

 

Where staff do not incur additional cost, ie officers who live in the North (which includes my dad incidentally) no additional cost should be paid.

 

New staff coming to the job shouldn't get a travel allowance regardless of where they live. They accept the terms when they take the job.

 

By the way Albert exactly what planning should the staff done? All move to Jurby perhaps? Mmmm great idea. The only planning that should have been done is by those in charge and this should have been sorted out long ago.

 

Other civil service departments relocating differ somewhat. In general the skills of staff are not specialised so many could transfer internally to a department closer to home if they are not happy with the travel, plus with the offices generally being in the centre of Douglas they are already incurring significant travel costs in terms of parking costs which, presuming free parking facilities are planned into any out of town building would be eliminated.

[ans]

Where staff do not incur additional cost, ie officers who live in the North (which includes my dad incidentally) no additional cost should be paid.

 

Doesn't he get a travel allowance to travel to Douglas?

[TerryMcCann]

Where staff do not incur additional cost, ie officers who live in the North (which includes my dad incidentally) no additional cost should be paid.

 

Doesn't he get a travel allowance to travel to Douglas?

 

Not that I am aware of

[Albert Tatlock]

What is the dangerous precedent being set?

 

The prison officers that will have to travel an additional distance to Jurby are effectively getting a pay cut as a result of this forced relocation. That would be seen as unacceptable in either the public or private sector.

 

Where staff do not incur additional cost, ie officers who live in the North (which includes my dad incidentally) no additional cost should be paid.

 

New staff coming to the job shouldn't get a travel allowance regardless of where they live. They accept the terms when they take the job.

 

By the way Albert exactly what planning should the staff done? All move to Jurby perhaps? Mmmm great idea. The only planning that should have been done is by those in charge and this should have been sorted out long ago.

 

Other civil service departments relocating differ somewhat. In general the skills of staff are not specialised so many could transfer internally to a department closer to home if they are not happy with the travel, plus with the offices generally being in the centre of Douglas they are already incurring significant travel costs in terms of parking costs which, presuming free parking facilities are planned into any out of town building would be eliminated.

The dangerous precedent is paying civil servants to travel to work on a small island - and the way government calculates travel costs e.g. 40p per mile - and then if others get relocated and expect the same payments on relocation, how much the costs could eventually be. Jeez - you talk like the prison has moved half way across Britain - when it's only a few miles.

 

If a company relocated across to the other side of Preston or Liverpool (e.g. 15 miles) they wouldn't pay mileage. On your logic, since your old man is now saving a few quid on his journey to work and has effectively gained a pay rise, it would only be fair that he should start chipping in to the others by having his tax code adjusted.

 

By planning I mean preparing to get up half an hour earlier, and if you had the previous luxury of being able to walk to walk, then realising sometime during the >5 years the prison was planned for and eventually built, that you needed to buy a car for work like the rest of us.

 

I agree there has to be a realistic relocation distance when mileage claims are valid - but >17 miles.

 

This is taxpayers money we are talking about - i.e. Joe Public subsidising one small sector of the civil service for similar distances many others on the island have to travel and don't get paid for.