P.K. Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 When you look at this seriously as someone said these officers have been forced to move work locations and no way can a prison officer be classed as a mobile worker. Oh no? In the UK most prisons are lumped together. North Cave and the Isle of Portland being two quick examples. Staff move around as part of their contract of employment going to point of need. I think this storm in a teacup (face it, nowhere is far away on the island) has come about because the scribbling servants and the prison are in Douglas and it was never thought parts would be re-located. That was a clear, authoritative and instructive post. You must be new 'round these parts. I would beg to differ. The Warder would appear to have skated over certain "facts" of the matter. He points out there is no direct bus route and anyway they are not available in the wee hours for call out. As this is true island-wide unless you are within walking distance of Victoria Road you already have to have your own transport to meet your contractual obligations. Anyway PO's without cars are probably like rocking-horse shit. Unless, of course, you are prepared to overfill the already bulging coffers of the taxi drivers! He then points out that those recruited post re-location decision will get zip with the rest on a sliding scale according to distance. All very reasonable but strangely there is as yet no mention of contractual obligations, funny that. He points out that there will be no extra payments should diversions be in order due to adverse weather. Well, welcome to Planet Earth and Acts of God which the poor, long-suffering tax-payer has yet to have to fund but from your post it would seem you think they should! He then assumes that relocation expenses are generally available. Assumptions are not facts - more of which later. We then get the hard done by bit with the assaults on staff and threatening behaviour (You wish to add to your sentence? Just step this way...), that training staff that takes a great deal of time and money (all funded by the taxpayer) and that they are a 24/7/52 operation with shift work etc etc. Well excuse me but isn't that what you signed up for? All that shift allowance - how much extra is it? Anything from twenty-five to forty percent? The unsocial hours payments, the overtime, the t-i-l, just how long is your compo list????? As I understand it the new prison is a must and it improves the lot of the staff as well as the prisoners. The opportunities for advancement and branching out for PO's has to be considerable. Talk about spoiling the boat for a ha'porth of tar. Back to the "relocation expenses are generally available" assumption. In one company I was re-located three times. The rules were clear. More than 40 miles additional journey and you qualified. However that re-location could include a new house! But thats forty miles. Had the Gov been a bit sharper (due when hell freezes over apparently) five years ago they could have legally changed all the contracts of employment to include the new location. Those who refuse to sign? Complete this well known phrase or saying - "Constructive _________" when the move comes. Companies who re-locate do this all the time. I think the PO's are lucky to get anything. In any event, they can always vote with their feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 On BBC North West now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 ...You can't offset the benefit to some staff against the loss to others - unless you're in a communist country perhaps. This is a genuine loss to people whose contracts of employment state Douglas as their work address. The only point I agree on is that they should trial having a bus from Douglas - it's a sensible option if it is used.... I wasn't actually being serious...just pointing out there would be winners and losers, as there are when this happens. I don't disagree with mileage recompense per se over a certain distance - maybe the answer is to sensibly specify that distance for a relocation i.e. >10 miles? But why should this be the case only for civil servants, why not tie it into employment law with a compulsory relocation clause for others on the island? - probably because most businesses would deem it unfair and laughable on an island this size. Again, I emphasise the potential costs if this precedent is set and open to all the other 8000 civil servants in the event of 'relocation' - plus, not forgetting these people are also expecting to be paid for the time they travel to work. As you may be aware, my views on the prison system here, is that it is failing, and I would be happy to see more money spent on the system in terms of rehabilitation and high quality staff etc. that could turn it around (which would save much money and hardship in the end). This is all a matter of principle and perspective. I think the government need to take a stand on this one. If it got on the ITN news, it'll end up with Trevor McDoughnut reading it as the '...and finally...if you think you've got problems travelling to work....' bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 That was a clear, authoritative and instructive post. You must be new 'round these parts. I would beg to differ. The Warder would appear to have skated over certain "facts" of the matter. He points out there is no direct bus route and anyway they are not available in the wee hours for call out. As this is true island-wide unless you are within walking distance of Victoria Road you already have to have your own transport to meet your contractual obligations. Anyway PO's without cars are probably like rocking-horse shit. Unless, of course, you are prepared to overfill the already bulging coffers of the taxi drivers! Just pinching a bit from your quote PK If the PO's took their cars whilst being called in, would they get petrol allowance? Also (don't know this either) Would their insurance on their cars be classed as business class, due to being called in on firms business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Perhaps some of you on this board can afford to take an effective pay cut like this - good for you! What, like every time the cost of petrol goes up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Also (don't know this either) Would their insurance on their cars be classed as business class, due to being called in on firms business? Normal insurance covers you to travel to and from your place of work. Anyway, business insurance costs no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Perhaps some of you on this board can afford to take an effective pay cut like this - good for you! What, like every time the cost of petrol goes up? Petrol increases affect everybody and they don't cost you thousands in one fell swoop (unless you do a hell of a lot of miles). Like I said before, this allowance has feck all to do with covering petrol price increases so your point is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Again, I emphasise the potential costs if this precedent is set and open to all the other 8000 civil servants in the event of 'relocation' - plus, not forgetting these people are also expecting to be paid for the time they travel to work. It does lead to a potential cost, but only if the gov are seriously considering moving the rest of their staff well away from Douglas. It then becomes something that they have to take into account when looking at the costs and benefits of such a move. If the benefits outweigh the costs (including the mileage allowances) then it's still a worthwhile move. I do agree that there should be no payment for the extra time of travel - that seems to me to be stretching the bounds of sensibillity. I ended up leaving my last job because of the extra time taken out of my day in getting to and from work - didn't ever think that I should be paid for it, just made the decision not to do it any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Perhaps they should join in on the Hunger Strike? This week friends and relatives of prisoners contacted the Isle of Man Newspapers claiming up to 16 of 32 prisoners on A wing had launched a hunger strike in protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jap Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 These prison officers look after the most violent and dangerous people that are on our Island. They have worked in absolutely abysmal conditions for years, nobody cared about that! Now they are having to add on an extra one and a half hours to their working day in order to travel to work - the new jail should not even be in Jurby -it should have gone to Braddan - no travelling difference there -and no millions of pounds wasted by telling everyone that Braddan was the place it was going -then the spineless MHK'S bottled out in case they did not get voted back in - no one cares if it goes out the back of beyond -but it cost millions of pounds in consultancy and planning fees to have the Braddan site knocked out! Have the taxpayers any idea how much more of their money is going to be used ferrying prisoners backwards and forwards to court and hospital appointments and so on? How much more is going to be spent on legal aid so their lawyers can travel out to Jurby and back to see their clients? The New jail was supposed to open in November 2007 - why the hold up ? It is not down to staff - Home Affairs has had years and years to sort out staff pay and conditions - they haven't - and now they want it to look like it is the staffs fault that the new jail is not open -when it isn't -it is theirs! The jail was handed over far too early - there is a massive amount of work to be done on the fixtures and fittings before it can be used. The prison staff have had no training on how to work all this super duper equpment that is there - and all the electrical equipment does not work! I know someone who worked on the new jail -they said it would be pushing it to be finished properly this side of christmas! These people are the unsung heros of the services - they deserve every penny they earn and more - and they should get it. They are contracted to work at Douglas - not Jurby - they all have families who have jobs in Douglas - it isn't just the prison staff themselves who are affected by this - but their families too. : Thanks for that prison officer [please insert name] Prison Officer? I am 74 years old -but have to say, even if I was 24 years old -I would not do that job for all the tea in China! I have read all the comments on this site, and have to say I cannot believe that most of them are written by just everyday people with no axe to grind against the prison Staff. No ex-prisoners have responded eh? Perhaps a Home Affairs Official can confirm wether or not staff are contracted to work in Douglas? The comment made that staff can get a bus? Have you ever tried getting a bus to Jurby? Bring back Capital punishment I say - that would empty the Prisons and then we would only need half as many staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I would not do that job for all the tea in China! The comment made that staff can get a bus? Have you ever tried getting a bus to Jurby? Bring back Capital punishment I say - that would empty the Prisons and then we would only need half as many staff! A dedicated staff bus was meant - and only then as a compromise - not the No 3 to Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jap Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I would not do that job for all the tea in China! The comment made that staff can get a bus? Have you ever tried getting a bus to Jurby? Bring back Capital punishment I say - that would empty the Prisons and then we would only need half as many staff! A dedicated staff bus was meant - and only then as a compromise - not the No 3 to Ramsey. I take it that you would want a whole fleet of buses to allow for all the different start and finish times.....then another bus if someone goes off ill and so on.........it would be the best service in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I would not do that job for all the tea in China! The comment made that staff can get a bus? Have you ever tried getting a bus to Jurby? Bring back Capital punishment I say - that would empty the Prisons and then we would only need half as many staff! A dedicated staff bus was meant - and only then as a compromise - not the No 3 to Ramsey. I take it that you would want a whole fleet of buses to allow for all the different start and finish times.....then another bus if someone goes off ill and so on.........it would be the best service in Europe. I wouldn't 'want' anything, and let them make their own way to work as everyone else has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Petrol increases affect everybody and they don't cost you thousands in one fell swoop (unless you do a hell of a lot of miles). Like I said before, this allowance has feck all to do with covering petrol price increases so your point is irrelevant. Nope, I walk to work, so petrol increases don't affect me at all. Should my driving to work collegues get a rise in pay because petrol has gone up? From my observation, this looks like sour grapes. The staff have been clearly against the location of the new prison all along, and this is just another 'told you so' style tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Why not just give a one off pay rise of say £1,000 per year to all affected staff. This would then peter out as they leave or retire. New staff would join at the salary agreed. Calculating mileages and all the crap that goes with it just means employing another bunch of civil servants to work it all out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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